The devaluation of the English (or American) language

This is a discussion on The devaluation of the English (or American) language within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I do, however, consider it a language onto itself. Shouldn't that be "unto itself"? I bought the bladerunner book "Do ...

  1. #16
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    I do, however, consider it a language onto itself.
    Shouldn't that be "unto itself"?

    I bought the bladerunner book
    "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by P.K. Dick, or the Blade Runner movie tie-in novel?

    Dune is good, but trust me, don't read any of the "Prelude to Dune" novels by his son (they really are awful).

  2. #17
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    The former, stealth.

    I didn't know there was a made-for-the-movie- novel.
    Sci-fi books give me big problems as far as credibility goes--
    you have to release yourself completely in order to refrain
    from throwing the book into the trashcan. At least I do.
    The one L. Ron Hubbard book I read (and quickly forgot)
    convinced me that sci-fi is generally aimed at retards and
    three-year olds. Do Androids Dream did little or nothing
    to change my thinking. Stuff like that will just never happen.
    So, the questions is, I guess, does anybody out there know of anything sci-fi that would qualify as literature?

    rick barclay
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  3. #18
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    So, the questions is, I guess, does anybody out there know of anything sci-fi that would qualify as literature?
    Stranger in a Strange Land or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley(sp?). 1984 by Orwell.

    Pretty much anything by Heinlein, come to think of it.
    All generalizations are false

  4. #19
    Registered User Esss's Avatar
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    > does anybody out there know of anything sci-fi that would qualify as literature?

    Pratchett? Niven/Pournelle (try Lucifer's Hammer)? Asimov? For that matter, Conan Doyle? What's your definition of 'literature'?

    > Stuff like that will just never happen.

    A story doesn't have to be possible to be literature; are you saying 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' doesn't qualify?
    Ess
    Like a rat in a maze who says,
    "Watch me choose my own direction"
    Are you under the illusion
    The path is winding your way?
    - Rush

  5. #20
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Flarelocke
    Stranger in a Strange Land or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley(sp?). 1984 by Orwell.

    Pretty much anything by Heinlein, come to think of it.
    I read Brave New World in high school. All I remember is the
    ending-the savage guy who was the director's son hanging
    himself and rotating about the various points of the compass.

    I never thought of BNW as sci-fi--the plot is much too contemporary, really passe (science rules! humanity suffers).
    Give me Jules Verne, or Clancy...****! Give me Terminator One
    and Two! Now Black River, he does science fiction.

    I've heard Asimov is pretty good. Maybe I'll check out Heinlein.
    I don't know. I'm not really much into what most people
    consider sci-fi. My problem.

    rick barclay
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  6. #21
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    I only like books that i can get mentally involved in. i love books with intricate plots and multiple interweaving storylines that get you so involved that you feel with the characters. That's why i like Frank Herbert (and also because he holds nothing sacred... the biggest weapons in a few of his books are sex-related). FH isn't afraid to tell it as it is.

    anyway....... don't talk about 'literature'. i don't care if what you read is 'literature', all that matters is if it is a turn-on to you, and you enjoy reading it. Some stuff that's considered literature is a large load of bullcrap that is pounded into the public as 'good' although it is actually quite contrarily horrendous.

    One things for sure: Civilization 3 is going to own the universe when it comes out. I'm going to buy it the second it hits the shelves.

  7. #22
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Esss
    >
    Pratchett? Niven/Pournelle (try Lucifer's Hammer)? Asimov? For that matter, Conan Doyle? What's your definition of 'literature'?

    Stuff like that will just never happen.

    A story doesn't have to be possible to be literature; are you saying 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' doesn't qualify?
    Sherlock Holmes--sci-fi? I don't think so.

    I define literature as anything written that makes sense to me,
    which doesn't mean I don't consider Hubbard or Huxley or
    P.K. Dick literature, because I do. I just don't happen to
    appreciate their writing as much as others do.

    I did not say a story has to be possible to be literature--that's ridiculous.
    I've said before, and I'll say again: a really good writer
    will take the real and paint it surreal and vice versa. A good
    writer comes off with his credibility intact. To me, Hubbard's
    one book that I read (I'm pretty sure now it was Battlefield Earth) was so juvenile in it's presentation
    that I just took it as an insult that anyone would write such
    garbage and expect people to believe it. That's what I meant
    when I said stuff like that will never happen. I've just returned
    from Barnes & Noble.com and I'm really amazed at the reviews on
    Battlefield Earth--32 weeks #1 on the N.Y. Times bestseller list,
    voted best sci-fi novel ever!-of all time! This can't be the same
    book! The one where the aliens are are all super invulnerable
    unkillable killing machines-except if you shoot them in the eye
    with your atomic pistol they'll coveniently drop dead? Are we
    talking about the same book, here? I hope not. At the time I read
    Battlefield, Hubbard's Dianetics was being advertised all over
    tv. That was one reason I picked it up--out of curiosity about
    someone who was being hailed as the next great philsopher-
    writer for our times. I don't know...Truth once again proves
    itself mightier than fiction (to me, at least). But anyway, let me try on Assimov
    and a few others mentioned here. I see a lot of members
    come here and recommend books for reading that I've never
    heard of. They're all good reading, I'm sure. Maybe one of them can tell
    me what's so good about L. Ron Hubbard.

    rick barclay
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  8. #23
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Aran Elus

    One things for sure: Civilization 3 is going to own the universe when it comes out. I'm going to buy it the second it hits the shelves.
    You talkin' about a book, here, or the game? There's already
    been two sequels to Civ II, and I think one of them was called
    Civ III. Happily correct me if I be wrong.

    rick barclay
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    This is America calling!

  9. #24
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    i'm talking about the game, and Civ III hasn't come out yet, although Civ CtP and ToT have come out and so has Civ CtP 2...

    well...... if Civ III has come out, then it must have been undergroound because i've not seen it in any computer stores as of late.

  10. #25
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    Do Androids Dream did little or nothing
    to change my thinking.
    I thought the book and Blade Runner raised some interesting issues as far as if a machine thinks, does it have a soul? Perhaps this novel/movie is even more relevent than ever before with the capabilities of cloning that we now posess.

  11. #26
    Ethereal Raccoon Procyon's Avatar
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    Fahrenheit 451 is 'literary' enough to be assigned reading in high schools; I had to read it back then.

    According to their website, Civ 3 doesn't seem to have a release date yet except Fall 2001.
    I intend to seize a copy immediately upon release as well.

  12. #27
    monotonously living Dissata's Avatar
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    ignoring all but the first few posts!

    the english language has not in any way been degraded! period!
    if anything it has only been abused. the same words that were there 100 years ago can still be found and used! just because someone uses the word cool instead of saying it was intriguing, does not in any way mean the word has been corrupted. it is still infallably used and will continue to be used.

    some of the english language has become more universal for those who have trouble understanding it, but those same words that you hated in school are still there!

    also to note the english language has over 2 times the amount of words that there were in the late 1800's and is expanded upon everyday

    the letter U is not a word, it is a letter that people have made an alternate meaning for

    If you don't believe me look in a dictionary! literature to read also, C. S. Lewis's book entitled miracles
    Last edited by Dissata; 09-02-2001 at 11:03 PM.
    if a contradiction was contradicted would that contradition contradict the origional crontradiction?

  13. #28
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by [stealth]


    I thought the book and Blade Runner raised some interesting issues as far as if a machine thinks, does it have a soul? Perhaps this novel/movie is even more relevent than ever before with the capabilities of cloning that we now posess.
    Clones and androids are two diffrent animals, stealth. I don't
    think we'll ever reach the android stage, now that cloning is here.
    Why would you need an android? As a weapon? How could
    you fit a rocket launcher on an android without killing it in the
    process? It would be easier and far simpler just to give the
    android the rocket launcher and let him go from there.

    The Bladerunner book that I read didn't raise any moral issues
    at all that I could see. It was just straight sci-fi. The bounty
    hunter did his job with an eye to making money; the androids
    avoided capture but met their fate like good je--er androids.
    Sometimes I think people read things into novels that aren't
    really there.

    rick barclay
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    This is America calling!

  14. #29
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Procyon
    Fahrenheit 451 is 'literary' enough to be assigned reading in high schools; I had to read it back then.

    According to their website, Civ 3 doesn't seem to have a release date yet except Fall 2001.
    I intend to seize a copy immediately upon release as well.
    F 451 was a megaseller. I've always regretted not getting around to reading it.

    If anybody wants play Civ III over a network, I'm available
    any time, any where, cuz I rulz the civ.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  15. #30
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    Sometimes I think people read things into novels that aren't
    really there.
    Look outside the box every once in a while rick and you might learn more than what you expected.

    The novel doesn't really explore too much into what I was talking about, but the Directors cut of Bladerunner undeniably questions what it means to be human. The film also casts doubt upon the fact that the bounty hunter (Ford) is human, hinting that he could be an android.

    My point is: is a clone a human, or just a clone? Is an android programmed in every way to be human, a human?

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