Giving Whole Answers to Questions

This is a discussion on Giving Whole Answers to Questions within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I believe it is ok if someone asks something like this: Code: Ok somebody create me a Hello World C ...

  1. #1
    UT2004 Addict Kleid-0's Avatar
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    Giving Whole Answers to Questions

    I believe it is ok if someone asks something like this:
    Code:
    Ok somebody create me a Hello World C Program
    Right now you're thinking about some options as answers:
    1. STFU
    2. We don't answer homework problems
    3. Please use code tags
    4. Code:
      #include <stdio.h>
      
      // Our program starts here.
      // main always returns an integer
      int main(
         void )   // No input values for function main
      {
         // Output hello world onto the console
         
         puts( "Hello World" );
      
         // Make sure the program doesn't just *Flash* onto the screen
      
         getchar( );
      
         // Return application successfully
         
         return 0;
      }
    My support for this thinking:
    The first 3 options does not help anyone. The 4th option helps you.

    If we always use the 4th option this is what we get:
    Benefits:
    - The people who want to learn shall learn
    - Less pointless posts
    - Helps the poster out because he/she is practicing more
    - Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic

    Debenefits:
    - The question spawner might just copy/paste the code and turn it in.

  2. #2
    Carnivore ('-'v) Hunter2's Avatar
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    >>The first 3 options does not help anyone.
    True, except for those with anger management problems.

    >>The 4th option helps you.
    Helps you learn self-control maybe?

    >>The people who want to learn shall learn
    True

    >>Less pointless posts
    True

    >>Helps the poster out because he/she is practicing more
    Hmm, not sure if I follow your reasoning on this one...

    >>Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic
    Huuuuh?

    >>The question spawner might just copy/paste the code and turn it in.
    True
    Just Google It. √

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  3. #3
    Handy Andy andyhunter's Avatar
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    Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic
    I am not sure one would say intellectual.
    i don't think most standard compilers support programmers with more than 4 red boxes - Misplaced

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  4. #4
    C Programmer Stack Overflow's Avatar
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    Um,

    I am a fan of #2 and #3 personally. A forum is a place or medium of open discussion or expression of ideas. Every person who asks for a program should not receive the whole source code unless they show effort.

    Even if they did show effort, and display their code, help them fix their code step by step. Don't rewrite it, even though it works. It won't help them figure out why they need to use "int main()" or "return 0", rather than "void main()" or "fflush (stdin)".

    There is a member, by the name of galmca. Search for him, and you'll see it isn't best to give away full answers. There wouldn't be jobs if everyone could have someone else do their work for them.


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  5. #5
    UT2004 Addict Kleid-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter2
    >>Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic
    Huuuuh?
    Like giving full source, and then disputing the source that was given, that's what I call thread hi-jacking lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stack_Overflow
    There is a member, by the name of galmca.
    That guy was special lol. There are a lot of people that benefit from full source I bet, as long as you explain the changes/what you are doing. If this doesn't work, the answer givers could easily switch to the step-by-step approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stack_Overflow
    Every person who asks for a program should not receive the whole source code unless they show effort.
    If they're not learning from the full source we could easily switch to another aproach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stack_Overflow
    Even if they did show effort, and display their code, help them fix their code step by step. Don't rewrite it...
    I agree with the no-rewriting, because the code will look foreign to them. But I don't exactly agree with always doing it step by step, but full source I see as an option, and sometimes the only option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stack_Overflow
    It won't help them figure out why they need to use "int main()" or "return 0", rather than "void main()" or "fflush (stdin)".
    That's why we should explain our full source, or give links to FAQ when needed. And if the questionaire really wants to learn he/she will ask why we always use return 0 or int main( ) all of the time.

  6. #6
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    Ill take door number 1 cos sometimes i like to be mean. i do try not to show it on this board though....(damn that rep system)

  7. #7
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    your an idiot kleid.
    Last edited by RoD; 01-30-2005 at 12:45 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered User Scribbler's Avatar
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    I can see both sides of the argument (kinda, not entirely).

    If somebody asks for code outright (ie. Ok somebody create me a Hello World C Program) that's a nono. Instead they should make the attempt, and if it doesn't work, post their code and ask "My printf(); statement is not giving me the result I expected... can somebody exlpain why?". Questions that specific should get specific aswers. Questions asking obviously very general questions should get obviously very general responses (give em a nudge, not the answer).

    And then there are some (I have not been on these forums very long and I've seen a lot) who are asking for homework assignments to be completed for them. Usually most of the problems are typical classic curriculum exercises and are easy to spot. Then there are some where it's obvious somebody has been having code just handed to them, because as their post count progresses, they start asking harder and harder questions (asking for more complicated code) and their examples show that they have not grasped one single concept of programming that even justifies their trying to tackle what they are attempting. (as a previous mention in this thread points out). Handing these people yet more code does absolutely nothing, as they could care less about what you explained to them in your code. Only that it works and they can cut and paste it onto their homework assignment.

    On the flipside of the coin, I think new posters should be granted some leeway. It's not very encouraging when their very first posts blasts them with "Hey schmuck use code tags!" or "Use the Search features!" or "Don't bump old threads!" or "Read the FAQ you friggin n00b!" While this particular forum's etiquette should definately be explained where appropriate, I'm sure some form of politeness can be exercised. Part of this stems from this forum having slightly different etiquette than a majority of forums online.

    For example, most forums promote necroing or re-awakening old threads that discuss the question you have, yet may not quite explain it in a manner that suit your particular needs. Whereas on this forum it is taboo.

    Also most users (while I don't condone this however; I can reasonably understand why it happens) typically find themselves frequenting many different forums, and fall into the assumption that the FAQ's are usually the same as other forums saying "No profanity, use search when you can, no flames etc etc." So they tend to either just gloss over the text, or ignore it altogether. Unfortunately, this forum does have specific needs which the FAQ does successfully demonstrate. This can be solved though if it is politely explained to a new user (somebody with say...less than 20 posts) who demonstrates that they haven't read it. Which would produce much better results (and repeat visits) than if they were attacked for it.

    When it comes to using the search features, I think a lot of the issues stem from the (in my opinion, I could be wrong) point that users frequent this forum to be educated and learn some programming, and one important aspect of learning is interaction. Yes a particular question may have been beaten to a pulp dozens of times over, however each person wants to be able to interact with others who can teach them, and interact with the problem/solution placed before them. Without that interaction, it kinda refutes the point of this forum to begin with. Otherwise all anybody would need is google, as there are Plenty of resources on the web and you'd be hard pressed not to find a solution to any question on c/c++ you could come up with simply by plugging the proper search terms.

    Sometimes I feel that if you don't know the answer to a question posed, or you don't much feel like answering it, then don't (I believe that's pointed out in this forum's FAQ as well). A one line response with nothing more that "Haven't you read the FAQ ? Quit posting dumb questions!" really serves no purpose other than to show your disdain.

    And before I feel as if I'm on a soapbox, I'd like to point out that I also recognize there are some users who could really benefit from a swift kick in the shorts. If their post count is over 20, and they're showing no sign that they've observed the house rules, well then they're on their own
    Last edited by Scribbler; 01-30-2005 at 12:49 AM.

  9. #9
    UT2004 Addict Kleid-0's Avatar
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    aahh Scribbler, my point is that it doesn't matter if the questionaire is learning or not. The point is to pretend they're learning at all times, and look at what we get in return!

    Benefits:
    - The people who want to learn shall learn
    - Less pointless posts
    - Helps the poster out because he/she is practicing more
    - Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic

    Debenefits:
    - The question spawner might just copy/paste the code and turn it in.

    We answer their questions with extra fulfillment, and we do what they say, even if they don't care about understanding. It's a win-win situation. No more comments like "We're not going to do this assignment for you", we'll be like: "Yes master, it shall be done".

    Aaahh this is coming down to one question.

    Is it Ok to help others cheat programming? I say yes, as long as you think they really care about understanding it. In the end it helps you understand it, and others that are reading the thread (because they're concerned too). When someone posts the full code, the thread can be hi-jacked, and thus people can prosper from discussing their source.

    I call these homework cheating hi-jack ready threads.
    Last edited by Kleid-0; 01-30-2005 at 12:56 AM.

  10. #10
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    here is where I stand on this point (as if you cared):

    I think we should use our judgement. sometimes I give somebody a straight answer because I believe they are capable of trying to understand it and ask again if there's some part(s) of it they don't understand. most people I want to see a little effort out of. mostly so I know what level they're at and tailor my answer to their level.
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  11. #11
    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
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    Ah, asymptotic RoD strikes again.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem
    Ah, asymptotic RoD strikes again.
    Hahahaha.
    The world is waiting. I must leave you now.

  13. #13
    former member Brain Cell's Avatar
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    We answer their questions with extra fulfillment, and we do what they say, even if they don't care about understanding. It's a win-win situation. No more comments like "We're not going to do this assignment for you", we'll be like: "Yes master, it shall be done".
    I hope this never happens. Lazy students will find this site the perfect place to get their homework done (with comments as an extra). I can't imagine my-self writing a program for someone just because he don't feel like it , and if i ever wanted to practice more , i'd work on some exercises from my C\C++ books or even make up some programs.

    Is it Ok to help others cheat programming? I say yes, as long as you think they really care about understanding it. In the end it helps you understand it, and others that are reading the thread (because they're concerned too).
    No it isn't. You're simply giving them a fish instead of teaching them how to fish. In fact , that sounds real selfish. We should help them understand their problem and let them "practice more" by showing their efforts.
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  14. #14
    C Programmer Stack Overflow's Avatar
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    Simply,
    Quote Originally Posted by Kleid-0
    Is it Ok to help others cheat programming? I say yes, as long as you think they really care about understanding it. In the end it helps you understand it, and others that are reading the thread (because they're concerned too).
    The way I see it is he's trying to condition Cboard this way. So when it's time for him to ask a question, and receive help, it's given with his like-minded outcome. Which consists of full source; no questions asked.

    Even if someone did ask for a program, you can write it yourself and learn from the experience. That does not mean you have to post it here too. Who cares if the OP is concerned. If they were concerned, they wouldn't need a full source hand-out. Rather, they would ask a specific question to derive a workable solution to their problem.

    More said than done.


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  15. #15
    Registered User axon's Avatar
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    wasn't this just discussed here: Posting Code == Wrong? ; are you so attention hungry that you had to start your own damn thread about it....

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