Giving Whole Answers to Questions

This is a discussion on Giving Whole Answers to Questions within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Sounds about right. I don't think I've ever seen one of his posts that doesn't just scream LOOK AT ME!...

  1. #31
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Sounds about right. I don't think I've ever seen one of his posts that doesn't just scream LOOK AT ME!

  2. #32
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    Govt you are so mean and cold hearted.

    By the way, I've been having this problem with my programming homework, I'm kinda tired, I was wondering if you could do it for me.
    See you in 13

  3. #33
    Handy Andy andyhunter's Avatar
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    Govt you are so mean and cold hearted.

    By the way, I've been having this problem with my programming homework, I'm kinda tired, I was wondering if you could do it for me.
    LOL - I am sure Kleid-0 will provide some code. That is as long as you weren't concerned with passing.

    I would also like to take this time to point out the only other person on Kleid-0's side is another one in the red box gang. Maybe Kleid-0 is their leader.
    i don't think most standard compilers support programmers with more than 4 red boxes - Misplaced

    It is my sacred duity to stand in the path of the flood of ignorance and blatant stupidity... - quzah

    Such pointless tricks ceased to be interesting or useful when we came down from the trees and started using higher level languages. - Salem

  4. #34
    Carnivore ('-'v) Hunter2's Avatar
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    Mm, well, there are reasons to support Kleid's arguments (such as the fact that homework copy-pasters will fail their exams), but I'm sure they've been discussed at length already.
    Just Google It. √

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  5. #35
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    I'd hardly say that the fact that they will fail exams is a reason supporting Kleid-0's position.
    a. It doesn't change the fact that you helped them cheat.
    b. I don't (and I doubt many here do) want to see these people become bad programmers. It is just that learning requires a lot more effort from the one learning than from anyone else. Simply giving them code is not truly helping them learn, at least at first.
    c. To use a cliche: No pain, no gain.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  6. #36
    Carnivore ('-'v) Hunter2's Avatar
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    I fully agree with you Zach, but I don't feel like leaving Kleid all alone
    Just Google It. √

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  7. #37
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm probably repeating what other's have said, but I'm going to say it anyway:

    Benefits:
    - The people who want to learn shall learn
    - Less pointless posts
    - Helps the poster out because he/she is practicing more
    - Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic

    Debenefits:
    - The question spawner might just copy/paste the code and turn it in.

    We answer their questions with extra fulfillment, and we do what they say, even if they don't care about understanding. It's a win-win situation. No more comments like "We're not going to do this assignment for you", we'll be like: "Yes master, it shall be done".

    Aaahh this is coming down to one question.

    Is it Ok to help others cheat programming? I say yes, as long as you think they really care about understanding it. In the end it helps you understand it, and others that are reading the thread (because they're concerned too). When someone posts the full code, the thread can be hi-jacked, and thus people can prosper from discussing their source.
    I completely disagree with you. I think the [url-http://cboard.cprogramming.com/announcement.php?f=3&announcementid=39]Homework Announcement[/url] sums it up pretty nicely.

    As a soon to be teacher - giving them the answer does not teach anything. Perhaps I'm cynical, but it's from expirence. The vast majority of people will cut and paste. If you lead to figuring out the answer you help them learn how to do it....

    If you teach a man to fish, you'll feed him for a lifetime. If you let a man watch you fish, you haven't done anything for him.

    While it's not policy that you can't give an answer, I think most of the long time posters here, and certainly Alex and I, feel strongly that you shouldn't give away complete answers.
    Kermi3

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  8. #38
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    Whatever you do Kermi3, please do not teach English.

    I wish some people would realize that the new people that argue, and go against the grain, OMIGOSH -- didn't make this community. Therefore they are not needed for this community to continue to thrive and grow. This community grew to it's respectable size AND status _because_ of it's strict measuring stick.

    In fact, as a fairly intelligent born person(wether I apply it or not I love learning), I feel that a strict measuring stick is more attractive and addicting. YOU JUST HAVE TO measure up to it and overcome the system.

    It's challenging and rewarding.

    I always feel hollow if someone completely does everything for me.
    Last edited by Shadow; 01-30-2005 at 05:33 PM.
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  9. #39
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
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    Whatever you do Kermi3, please do not teach English.
    No elementary school or or middle school math/science - and my grammar arn't too bad. Especially when I try...go look at some of my old posts....ouch.
    Kermi3

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermi3
    No elementary school or or middle school math/science - and my grammer arn't too bad. Especially when I try...go look at some of my old posts....ouch.
    You know I have to tease you.
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  11. #41
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    Kleid, every single thing you said is wrong or wrong-headed. I shall go through piece by piece and explain so that you can understand.

    I believe most of what I will say has been covered earlier. Think of this as a translation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleid-0
    I believe it is ok if someone asks something like this:
    Code:
    Ok somebody create me a Hello World C Program
    This is an exceptional case; there exist plenty of hello world programs available. On the other hand, I would not be inclined to help someone who was so rude as to demand that I write code for them. If you want to be their servant, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    Right now you're thinking about some options as answers:
    [list=1][*]STFU
    More to the point, you could politely explain why their request is unlikely to be answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    [*]We don't answer homework problems
    This is one reason why a post wouldn't be answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    [*]Please use code tags
    This is silly. They didn't need to use code tags for that post.

    <-- snip excessive example -->

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    My support for this thinking:
    As it were.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    The first 3 options does not help anyone.
    This is almost completely wrong. Option 1 is potentially amusing. Option 2 enforces the norms of the board.

    You are, on the other hand, actually correct that Option 3 is useless. I suspect that you didn't intend to be right on this account. (This is why I said everything you wrote was *either* wrong or wrong-headed. This is the wrong-headed part
    .)
    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    The 4th option helps you.
    If you happen to have never coded the particular sample perhaps. But not if you don't have time, haven't been given sufficient specifications, or find such begging morally offensive (or, minimally, obnoxious. You seem to have issues with understanding this concept.)

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    If we always use the 4th option this is what we get:
    Benefits:
    - The people who want to learn shall learn
    The goal is to teach them to think, not just the syntax of their program. A good series of questions makes your mind better, not just your memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    - Less pointless posts
    Do you know why you shouldn't give a stray cat milk?

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    - Helps the poster out because he/she is practicing more
    Indeed. Let's hope that this practice elevates their skills to where they can use it in real life by getting their friends to write their code, not just some anonymous forum members.

    If, however, you meant that it would help them practice their code, you have not only lost any credit for your previous semi-correct statement, but have now descended into the deep reaches of moral and intellectual offensiveness.

    These are harsh words, and for someone like you, who deserves the opportunity to learn, let me give you both an example of how to think and a chance to learn why you are wrong: What, Kleid, are they practicing?

    Now, because I do not intend to listen to your silly replies, I shall rebut them in turn.

    1) They are practicing coding.

    This is patently false. They are practicing begging.

    2) They can learn from the code.

    This is a so-called teachable moment. I shall not explain precisely why this is incorrect because that would be like writing the whole program for you.

    Instead, think about what you do when code is handed to you. Think about how you reply to the arguments I have made that do not ask you to think.

    Note, further, that you have two choices: your first choice is to agree with my previous arguments, as they are correct. In this case, you are wrong. Your second choice is to disagree with those arguments, in which case you have demonstrated my point that being given information does not mean it will be assimilated.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    - Thread hi-jacking to share intellectual knowledge about the topic
    I don't even understand what you intend to say. Do you mean that a pointless thread will be hijacked by intellectuals whereas a relevant thread will be hijacked by RoD? I see no empirical evidence of this fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    Debenefits:
    Use real English. People from other countries read this board, and making up words is disrepectful and potentially confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    - The question spawner might just copy/paste the code and turn it in.
    A second moment of clarity.

    Unfortunately, you later posted this

    Quote Originally Posted by kleid-0
    Is it Ok to help others cheat programming? I say yes, as long as you think they really care about understanding it. In the end it helps you understand it, and others that are reading the thread (because they're concerned too). When someone posts the full code, the thread can be hi-jacked, and thus people can prosper from discussing their source.
    As an exercise, apply the principles suggested by this post to deconstructing that statement.
    Last edited by CoderBob; 01-30-2005 at 05:56 PM.
    I was born; I shall die. Between those two events there is life. I don't know why, and I don't question it; I merely live.

  12. #42
    UT2004 Addict Kleid-0's Avatar
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    Well my Mom and I are having hamburgers tonight. I really like hamburgers.

  13. #43
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    I'm sorry my deconstruction of your point was so long. I'm glad I didn't attack your grammar too!

    I should not have given you so many detailed explanations -- as plain as well-commented source code. I think you have demonstrated my point clearly at this stage. Feel free to hijack this thread for the sake of your ego. You obviously don't want to learn.
    I was born; I shall die. Between those two events there is life. I don't know why, and I don't question it; I merely live.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoderBob
    I'm sorry my deconstruction of your point was so long.
    I'm not.
    The world is waiting. I must leave you now.

  15. #45
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermi3
    If you teach a man to fish, you'll feed him for a lifetime. If you let a man watch you fish, you haven't done anything for him.
    I believe the correct phrase is: Give a man a fire, and you will keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life.

    Okay... Sorry, I just had to say that.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

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