Posting Code == Wrong?

This is a discussion on Posting Code == Wrong? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; It seems to me that there is a lot less of posting example code these days and more responses along ...

  1. #1
    Handy Andy andyhunter's Avatar
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    Posting Code == Wrong?

    It seems to me that there is a lot less of posting example code these days and more responses along the lines of 'go figure it out'. I understand that people who come here for the sole purpose of having their homework done for them and the reason to ignore those, however what about those that are just trying to learn the language and so far have not run into a tutorial that has clicked with them. I know I have recently come across posts where people have stated they don't understand something or how to accomplish a task and many responses were vague at best; things along the lines of "use a loop" and "do this". More so we have begun to chastise some people for providing sample code in the form of a complete program that can be directly copied and compiled.

    I am not starting a flame post nor do I have any grievances with the members of this board. I am just looking for maybe some discussion on this by some of the senior members so I can understand what the current philosophy is here.

    -Andy
    i don't think most standard compilers support programmers with more than 4 red boxes - Misplaced

    It is my sacred duity to stand in the path of the flood of ignorance and blatant stupidity... - quzah

    Such pointless tricks ceased to be interesting or useful when we came down from the trees and started using higher level languages. - Salem

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    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Because a huge amount of the posts here are the same question again and again and if the OP actually took 5 minutes to search he'd find his answer. When you've been here as long as a lot of the people who help in the code forums a lot, you get sick of seeing the same problem in 1000 different forms.

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    Registered User SpEcIeS's Avatar
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    I kind of agree with you on this andyhunter. Even though I do receive help from this board, but I have found that not only this board is like this others are too. In fact I have been chastised, rudely, in the past on another boards for supplying code for users, and I still really do not understand why.

    I must agree that I am not the best programmer out there, or even mediocer, but how are others and myself going to grow if nowone helps?

    Do not get me wrong, I really enjoy this board, the C/C++ language, and some very experienced members really go out of there way to help. Maybe oneday I will be good as some of the best.
    SpEcIeS

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    Registered User SpEcIeS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govtcheez
    Because a huge amount of the posts here are the same question again and again and if the OP actually took 5 minutes to search he'd find his answer. When you've been here as long as a lot of the people who help in the code forums a lot, you get sick of seeing the same problem in 1000 different forms.
    I guess you are right about that. Not necessarly you, but some may consider guidance as a gentle hand, not a rod to the back.
    Last edited by SpEcIeS; 01-27-2005 at 06:43 AM.
    SpEcIeS

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    Handy Andy andyhunter's Avatar
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    I understand that the same problems show up over time and the same questions arise. I run a continuing training program for my department; the same mistakes, the same questions, the same stupidity. I am all too familiar with that. However isn't that the nature of the beast? More so is that a good reason to short change somebody? I mean the beauty of boards like these is that if you don't want to deal with the question or person, you don't have too. Simply don't post. Now I am all for maintaining good order however many of the responses I have seen in the past couple of days have not been to people who just wanted someone to do a school project for them.
    i don't think most standard compilers support programmers with more than 4 red boxes - Misplaced

    It is my sacred duity to stand in the path of the flood of ignorance and blatant stupidity... - quzah

    Such pointless tricks ceased to be interesting or useful when we came down from the trees and started using higher level languages. - Salem

  6. #6
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    you get sick of seeing the same problem in 1000 different forms.
    God I wish it was 1000 different forms, but sadly they aren't that orginal and usally fall into the same half dozen forms

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    Software Developer jverkoey's Avatar
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    One of the biggest parts of programming is logical skills. If you don't have logical skills, you will undoubtedly struggle tremendously at programming. I've met many people in real life who've tried programming but all they want to do is be "l33t h4x0r" and "h4x0r" their school's network or make programs to cheat on particular online games or just plain make viruses *cough*cgod*cough*

    And then there's just the people who are plain lazy, and lazy people won't ever get anywhere with programming. Sure, a lot of the high ranking members here are probably lazy at times, and every one here had to start off at one point. However, all of these members who have been here for a long time know that the people who do actually stick around are the people who really do want to be good at programming. Take our criticism as a "filtering" process in a way. We filter out all the people who don't really appear to be getting anywhere and keep all the good people, which I believe is why cboard is such a good community as it is today.

    So, yah, we get these posts every now and then, I've been here for 2 years, ever since I started programming, and for me personally, after about a year of being here I flipped over from a "asker" to a "helper" and began helping people more than I was asking for help.

    So yah, just keep working at programming, don't be disheartened by our criticism, and just remember to work your hardest and eventually you'll come out on top.

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    It's all about balance. You try to balance between spending your time answering questions and telling people when to do more on their own.

    Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between someone being lazy and someone being a complete babe in the woods. Until you get that first 'foot in the door' so to speak, programming seems like an insurmountable challenge. I try to give people that foot in the door when I can, then otherwise I don't help as much.
    See you in 13

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    The rule would be a good rule if there wasn't a rule against bumping old threads. Since that rule is in place, if a person searches for X and finds a thread Y about X, but doesn't understand it, they're screwed. If they start a new thread to ask for clarification, all they'll get are answers like "See thread Y" when they didn't understand it to begin with.

    So it's a catch 22 for new posters.

  10. #10
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    When a question's asked as often as most of these are, there's usually an active thread with a similar one going.

    Besides, if the old thread answered their question, there'd be no reason for them to post about it, would there? All someone has to do is say "hey, I searched but the problem's not solved". We just want some sort of effort put into it.

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    Registered User hk_mp5kpdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithorien
    The rule would be a good rule if there wasn't a rule against bumping old threads. Since that rule is in place, if a person searches for X and finds a thread Y about X, but doesn't understand it, they're screwed. If they start a new thread to ask for clarification, all they'll get are answers like "See thread Y" when they didn't understand it to begin with.

    So it's a catch 22 for new posters.

    But then they should say in the first place "I did a search and saw this thread Y discussing this same topic X and I don't quite understand the concepts being presented in that thread and would appreciate some further input/guidance on the matter."
    "Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are god. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are gods."
    -Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithorien
    The rule would be a good rule if there wasn't a rule against bumping old threads. Since that rule is in place, if a person searches for X and finds a thread Y about X, but doesn't understand it, they're screwed. If they start a new thread to ask for clarification, all they'll get are answers like "See thread Y" when they didn't understand it to begin with.

    So it's a catch 22 for new posters.
    That's why they take the rocket science route of saying, "I read the thread at this link, but I didn't understand issues X, Y, and Z."

    Quote Originally Posted by jverkoey
    However, all of these members who have been here for a long time know that the people who do actually stick around are the people who really do want to be good at programming. Take our criticism as a "filtering" process in a way. We filter out all the people who don't really appear to be getting anywhere and keep all the good people, which I believe is why cboard is such a good community as it is today.
    The absolute bible of accurate explanations. This method is employed everywhere. I employ it at boards I moderate, as long as they have a technical theme. I also apply it to different sections of my board to different degrees(IE: No whankers in GD, or RoD type replies).

    The community ran fine before you. Intelligent discussion and help went on. You come along and argue. Please just leave. It's not worth it for us. That should be a new rule for everywhere! "If you can't follow the rules or understand the mindset, just leave."
    Last edited by Shadow; 01-27-2005 at 12:45 PM.
    The world is waiting. I must leave you now.

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    I disagree, Lithorien. I've never had any trouble bringing up a question from a past post as long as I reference the post and explain my question. As long as you ask a smart question, everything is well. Consider this post about fflush(stdin). Any one of those posters could have told me to search, but I'd already covered my bases by saying that I had searched and fully expressing my question instead of just "why don't we use fflush(stdin)?".

    In my opinion, all new posters could benefit by reading "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way", with special attention to "How To Interpret Answers", "On Not Reacting Like A Loser", "Questions Not To Ask", and "Good and Bad Questions".

    In summary, I expect to be chastised if I ask "why not void main()?" or any other question that could easily be answered by a search, either on the web or through the forum. As the author of the above webpage states, "Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public." This community sends the message that they will not tolerate questions to which the answers are easily accessible or questions which are ill-defined. That makes perfect sense to me.
    If I did your homework for you, then you might pass your class without learning how to write a program like this. Then you might graduate and get your degree without learning how to write a program like this. You might become a professional programmer without knowing how to write a program like this. Someday you might work on a project with me without knowing how to write a program like this. Then I would have to do you serious bodily harm. - Jack Klein

  14. #14
    I am me, who else?
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    I can realize it may be frustrating to have to couch your question in a way thats more than just "I want to know about X" but it can be hard for the people answering because they can't read your mind. I agree with pianorain, perhaps a FAQ on couching questions or the like would help a great deal. I make sure to try to be as concise as possible, yet I have been guilty of being to vague. If you do understand the general framework, add the link in, and say I read xyz post, but I don't understand the reason, please explain further, I am sure many would happily try their best. Remember these people are not getting paid, they do this on their free time, and it can be a waste to rewrite a question 10 times over again, and frustrating. I know you already know this, but a little bit of courtesy goes a long way, online or otherwise

  15. #15
    RoD
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    There are alot of people out there who just dont have the "nack" to be a programmer, let alone a C++ programmer. These are the people who cannot grasp the simple concepts they are asking about, and will keep asking and probing until you make them aware that they are never going to get it.

    Granted not everyone is a fast learner, but the majority of those we deal with arent even trying. They are people who just want to pass, or dont want to work for it, dont want to learn the basics, etc.

    Were not always dealing with the lazy, were dealing with the downright incompetent.

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