Love - learned or inherent?

This is a discussion on Love - learned or inherent? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; While I'd agree with you that it is inherent (I'm not so sure about the exponential function hypothesis, though), I'm ...

  1. #16
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,686
    While I'd agree with you that it is inherent (I'm not so sure about the exponential function hypothesis, though), I'm not sure that you've really made a case for it, Kleid.

    While reactions can certainly be influenced by learning, I think that the basic reactions are inherent. As I mentioned earlier, we can probably find analogs to the various emotions we'd consider in other societies with whom we've had minimal contact. Additionally, it would be hard to account for the uniformity of emotional reactions* within a society, especially in children. Certainly some are exposed to many stories and tales early on, but many are not, yet they still seem to exhibit emotions to which they have not formally been introduced.

    *The uniformity is, of course, not perfect, and there is obviously a rather large difference in the "implementation details".
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  2. #17
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    Inherent, evolved to keep couples together for the benefit of their children, (without love, couples will constantly split as they find more attractive people who will take them on, that's bad for children)

    Recognition of being in love is like recognition of other states, sad, happy, etc.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  3. #18
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    140
    Letīs take a few unique examples.
    There are the humans who grew up among animals or isolated in basements, and we know they end up mostly mimicking the behaviors they got to see. That does not excludes the possibiliy that wolf-boy had the biological feelings of love, jealously and such. I donīt know more of those cases in relation to love though.

    There is anothere experiment done with just born geese. As soon as they came from their eggs, they started following the first thing they saw, a human, as if it was the mother.
    Then, when they cast a shadow of a goose on the floor, they didnīt seen to respond to it. But when they cast the shadow of an eagle ( they had never seen a real one before ), they all started freaking out and running away.

    So, much like all other animals, we could have instincts that could be completed by the enviroment and others that did not depend on it. Perhaps love could be one of the first, and that would explain why we feel attracted to people of the same sex or not, like animals also do.

    But regardless, we are humans. I donīt believe there are any instincts that tell us what to do. If there are, what they do is tell us what is pleasure and what is not ( which could include love in some way ), and we have other brain functions that conflitct with those.
    So when you have someone who rapes, itīs not that their genes or instincts told him to do so, itīs usually because he/she has a socialization where other peopleīs suffering is indifferent in that case.

    The fact that we can completely change the object of our love ( look for different personalities and qualities ) shows that the object of love is not a natural scene from a love at first sight movie, but also does not excludes the possibility of love being a feeling/need like pleasure from food ( which by the way, your taste for food can completely change too ).

    But then again, we have those people who literally crucifixe themselves to remember jesus, we have others who stay away from love ( priests, hermits ) and such, which contradicts some of our most basic feelings of pleasure and well being.

    So is love an isntinct towards other or a capacity of feeling, like wanting food, drugs or scratching your back with a metal pole, which itīs act and way to be can change with social and individual regulations?
    To me it seens love is the latter, itīs just a capacity of pleasure and that is what defines it, and love could be taken in any way because we are humans and our "instincts" are very mutable.

    All that doesnīt asnwers if someone born with wolves willl show feelings of heavy attachment towards some creature , though, so uhm, I think we need to look on those cases >.o

  4. #19
    Bob Dole for '08 B0bDole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    618
    I say it's both.
    Hmm

  5. #20
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,686
    The case of a person growing up with wolves (or any other non-human of your choice) is an interesting case, but I don't think it'll give a complete answer. Someone who grows up in an environment devoid of humans will have a lot of differences. Behavior would be learned from the wolves, and as such, they would not develop normally. While I think that the basic instincts/emotions are there, given such an atypical environment, they would likely develop in very different ways (or so it seems to me, at least), perhaps failing to develop at all.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  6. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by axon
    The main topic is the following question, "are emotions learned, or inherent in the human being?"
    I once read somewhere that they are inherent and are like reflexes; immediate responses to certain situations that you have no or little control over.

    The theory that we 'discover' love because it is introduced to us seems a bit impossible: the first one who introduced someone to love must have experienced it from someone else. Love can't be caused by reading books etc. because it needs to have started from somewhere (religious people may argue that God taught us love and he started it).
    -Felix
    Rots Soft
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
    Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

  7. #22
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    I suppose one needs to define exactly what one means by "love", i think that strong feelings of attachment for a mate/potential mate that go beyond pure physical attraction is rooted in genetics (behaviour demonstrating attachment for partners appears to extend across human culture and even into the animal kingdom), though the way in which love is expressed will presumeably be highly dependent on learned behaviour.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  8. #23
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,831
    There has to be some inherent connection between sensory input and behaviour.

    I cannot tell you why, but when I listen to certain pieces of music, there are a number of chord sequences, not all of them overly complex, that will always make me laugh, and there are a few that reliably have me choking back the tears. This was the case when I was a kid, I didn't understand music then, I do now, but it doesn't alter the effect.

    Now, is that an emotional response or a wired input/output response?

    Define emotion.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianxw
    I cannot tell you why, but when I listen to certain pieces of music, there are a number of chord sequences, not all of them overly complex, that will always make me laugh, and there are a few that reliably have me choking back the tears. This was the case when I was a kid, I didn't understand music then, I do now, but it doesn't alter the effect.
    I have that too - also when the right drum break comes in at the right moment etc.
    -Felix
    Rots Soft
    If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
    Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

  10. #25
    Registered User axon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    2,572
    Inherent, evolved to keep couples together for the benefit of their children
    you really think so? I'm not great in anthropology, but isn't the "couple" unit a relatively young idea [note the relatively). Also how does your argument account for homosexuality?

    Love can't be caused by reading books etc. because it needs to have started from somewhere (religious people may argue that God taught us love and he started it).
    OK, I actually think that it is a mixture of both, inherent and learned. We have inherent emotions from birth, such as love, joy, sadness, etc - but we need stories to "coach" us to understand all these complex emotions.

    I suppose one needs to define exactly what one means by "love", i think that strong feelings of attachment for a mate/potential mate that go beyond pure physical attraction is rooted in genetics (behaviour demonstrating attachment for partners appears to extend across human culture and even into the animal kingdom), though the way in which love is expressed will presumeably be highly dependent on learned behaviour.
    see, clyde, you're getting exactly at my point - your definiton of love is not inherent, is it? you had to learn it from somewhere - that emotion (which we define as love) had to be "coached" somehow, in order for you to obtain that deeper definition of the emotion itself.

    define emotion.

    I like dictionary.com's definition just fine, I think it fits our discussion perfectly: "A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling: the emotions of joy, sorrow, reverence, hate, and love."

    some entropy with that sink? entropysink.com

    there are two cardinal sins from which all others spring: Impatience and Laziness. - franz kafka

  11. #26
    Bob Dole for '08 B0bDole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    618
    This would be a good topic to discuss with my philosophy professor, I'll send him an email and see if he'll join the board's discussion.
    Hmm

  12. #27
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    3,230
    Quote Originally Posted by axon
    OK, I actually think that it is a mixture of both, inherent and learned. We have inherent emotions from birth, such as love, joy, sadness, etc - but we need stories to "coach" us to understand all these complex emotions.
    I'm thinking that we're born with some sort of innate ability to "love," (ie, have strong emotions for a person) but that the world around us (literature, stories and movies, our parents, etc.) focuses and intensifies it into a single identifiable feeling: love, hate, disgust, sadness, etc.

    There have been (or at the least there has been a single) psycho-social studies done of the facial reactions to certain emotions--such as happiness, sadness, frustration--in cultures across the world. The results were that most common facial expressions could be identified to the proper emotion in just about every culture. This, I think, underscores the idea that emotion and feelings are mostly innate.

    If I can find the link to the study, I'll post it.

  13. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    719
    i haven't thought about this long enough to make a long in depth profound post. but the whole time i was reading i was thinking about how certain animals have been known to mourn their dead. elephants, dolphins, apes (there's more, and maybe the ones i listed are incorrect, but the fact is that there are animals that do). to me this certainly provides some evidence of "instinctual attachment".

    on a side note: i just realized i named the 3 smartest animals (i think, in the top 10 anyway). coincidence?
    i seem to have GCC 3.3.4
    But how do i start it?
    I dont have a menu for it or anything.

  14. #29
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    2,686
    You forgot the mice... After all, they built the world...
    (Alright, sorry, I couldn't help myself. Now back to your regularly scheduled philosophizing.)

    On a more relevant note, the research that Ken mentioned fits well with what I mentioned earlier, namely that if there is some sort of reaction that can in some manner be more or less uniformly identified across various cultures, then this points to the emotions be inherent.

    Now, the cultural context seems that it should be a major determining factor in exactly how those emotions are carried out, and what is associated with them in one's mind. While the definition of emotion that axon provided mentions a response that develops through some non-conscious process, it does not in any way specify how the mind would consciously respond to either the stimulus eliciting the emotion (or what the stimulus is), or for that matter, the emotion itself, and this seems to leave a lot of room for the particular ideas associated with love, hate, etc to be based largely on cultural factors.
    Last edited by Zach L.; 01-19-2005 at 06:49 PM.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  15. #30
    RoD
    RoD is offline
    Redundantly Redundant RoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    6,331
    Love is completely natural, not learned. Let me explain why i feel this way. Earlier this week when lauryn had her accident, i felt a pool of emotions tword everyone and everything. I cried like a little baby for 3 1/2 days straight, and thinking about it makes me want to do it again.

    How many stories of love in your childhood expressed of such a pain? Alot of them, but not enough to influence a mode of behavior imo. I also wrote her a poem, i have never wrote any poetry in my life, but it flowed out natural and without intent or thought.

    Anyone who talked to me the other night, i think the only one from here was kermi, can tell you that no expressed pain that deep could be learned. Just natural, pure, straight emotion.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Unconditional Love
    By jrahhali in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 05-17-2005, 02:18 AM
  2. "if you love someone" :D
    By Carlos in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-02-2003, 02:10 AM
  3. Learned optimism
    By Terrance in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-25-2003, 04:06 PM
  4. What signs are there of that a girl is in love with you?
    By A_guy in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 05-21-2003, 08:48 AM
  5. What have you learned?
    By ygfperson in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-02-2002, 12:12 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21