A way to fight spam?

This is a discussion on A way to fight spam? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I'm one of them too... ( no limit ) Second, what about the legal and ethical aspects? When people use ...

  1. #16
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
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    I'm one of them too... ( no limit )

    Second, what about the legal and ethical aspects?
    When people use cowardice and power to override our choices, we have a situation where itīs difficult to be ethical. If there is a way to fight those situations back in a way where a clear message can be sent to abusers with a way to pressure them to stop their actions, I donīt see a problem with it.
    They make their bussiness by spamming our emails, something we donīt want, and that would be the extent of what we would be taking from them.
    Last edited by the dead tree; 11-30-2004 at 03:55 PM.

  2. #17
    Cat without Hat CornedBee's Avatar
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    The program is primarily targeted at Europe, though, and the situation is somewhat different here.
    All the buzzt!
    CornedBee

    "There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code."
    - Flon's Law

  3. #18
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    For me the way i see this thing its like fighting fire with fire, which indeed can help some times but as said before in this thread, alot of ppl have limits imposed by their ISP ( just like me ), although 3 Mb a day is not much i agree.

    But since i cant see any good reason to do something which leans very close to illegal (DoS attack like ) actions.

    Thats the only reason i uninstalled it, and the only reason for me installing it was to see what it actually did and what, to where and which amount to which location.

    I guess weīll see what the future holds for this one.

    Greets,

    Ganglylamb.

  4. #19
    chococoder
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    Most ISPs here charge a flat fee for DSL or cable access.
    There's usually a clause that states that traffic above a "reasonable" amount might get them interested and cause you to be throttled but I've only heard of few cases where that was enforced.

    One of them was a friend where they had unintentionally put a block at 100MB downstream a day into effect that was meant for another type of account (oops), another a case where someone was downloading massive amounts of movies and music over a cable connection and on his own used up some 90% of the available bandwidth for several hundred subscribers. He got a firm warning to slow down or face the consequences...


    But back to topic
    In many countries aiding in an attack on another computer is a criminal offense even if the other computer is harming you directly.
    I believe this is the case in the US as well.
    On more than one occasion people have been arrested and prosecuted for launching DOS attacks or even probes in retaliation for DOS attacks on their own machines.
    Usually the criminal walks while the person defending himself pays the price and is branded a dangerous vigilante.
    Last edited by jwenting; 12-01-2004 at 05:01 AM.

  5. #20
    Registered User hk_mp5kpdw's Avatar
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    A followup article, seems the site offering the screensaver was hacked by a pro-spam group.
    "Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are god. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are gods."
    -Christopher Hitchens

  6. #21
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    >seems the site offering the screensaver was hacked by a pro-spam group.

    > Finally, what happens when the spammers retaliate?

    That didn't take long. First time I've been happy about a spammer's actions.

  7. #22
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
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    Frodo would never win in our world, Aragorn and Legolas would arrest him for being illegal in his actions.
    Last edited by the dead tree; 12-01-2004 at 08:50 AM.

  8. #23
    Software Developer jverkoey's Avatar
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    haha, the site's still down:
    makelovenotspam.com

    and up here in Canada, I've got unlimited cable, we play one flat fee and get unlimited upload/download. I've never had an ISP that did otherwise.

  9. #24
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    How is what the spammers are doing cowardly? Sure, it's annoying and intrusive, but they're just trying to make money like anyone else. Yes, there needs to be some way to regulate it and penalties for acting the way they do now, but I don't see how that's cowardly.

    edit: I see you've changed your post.
    Now I'm just going to quote what you changed it to and laugh at you
    Frodo would never win in our world, Aragorn and Legolas would arrest him for being illegal in his actions.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  10. #25
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
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    I added that about frodo, but then I changed what I orginally posted because I thought people might not know exactly who I was referring to as cowards.
    But yes I meant spammers in general. How is using power and dissimulation to do to us something we donīt want not being coward?

    Law has made so many mistakes over years, I believe we should judge things by what damage they do to others and always letting people live in the most individual way possible without harming others, and not wheter they are legal or not because that always needs changing.

    And you can laugh, it was a joke, even though I really mean it.

  11. #26
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > How is using power and dissimulation to do to us something we donīt want not being coward?

    Dictionary.com defines a coward as "One who shows ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain." I fail to see how people running a business that's a nuisance but still inside the law fit inside that definition. Just because you say they're cowards doesn't make it true.

    > I believe we should judge things by what damage they do to others and always letting people live in the most individual way possible without harming others,

    That's the point of the law. Your problem is that you only want the law to protect who you like, which isn't the case. Taking away their businesses would harm these people and help you. The law decides who can be hurt.

  12. #27
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
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    When someone older and stronger hurts a kid, he is called a coward, I 'm using the word in this sense.

    The law decides who can be hurt.
    The law doesnīt decides for me. Which is why I said I believe people should be able to live in their most individual ways as long as it doesnīt harm others.
    I donīt want spam, and I'm not being selfish not wanting it.

    The way you seen to be putting it, looks like to me that if I start calling your house non stop, I'm not the one doing something wrong, you are the one who should disconnect your phone.
    To me thatīs dissimulation, itīs one person acting in a selfish way ( spammers ) claiming the other is responsable for everything and/or selfish by trying to stop them ( which is how all selfish people react, others are selfish, not them ).

    Also, talking about being ethical or not against fighting spammers, It might be that people make an error in judgement much like when someone who is really nice does something bad, everyone treats him as a horrible person and when a horrible person does something good, everyone treats as the best of guys.

    Emotions most of the time will decide our opinions, and we feel that some things are so natural that when someone tries to stop it in a bad way, they are monsters, and the real monsters are never doing something wrong.
    But if you really look at it, most of the times people are just fighting for a basic right to live freely that is being denied.

  13. #28
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > The way you seen to be putting it, looks like to me that if I start calling your house non stop, I'm not the one doing something wrong, you are the one who should disconnect your phone.

    I didn't imply that at all. What I'm trying to say is that jsut because you're being a jerk it doesn't give me a right to go to your house, rip your phone out of the wall, kick you in the balls, and take your wallet.

    > Also, talking about being ethical or not against fighting spammers, It might be that people make an error in judgement much like when someone who is really nice does something bad, everyone treats him as a horrible person and when a horrible person does something good, everyone treats as the best of guys.

    This is entirely different. No one's saying the spammers aren't bad people, just that actively attacking them is also wrong.

    >Emotions most of the time will decide our opinions, and we feel that some things are so natural that when someone tries to stop it in a bad way, they are monsters, and the real monsters are never doing something wrong.
    But if you really look at it, most of the times people are just fighting for a basic right to live freely that is being denied.

    Wow, you are blowing things WAY out of proportion. Spam violates your basic right to live freely? Give me a break.

  14. #29
    Loom Weaver the dead tree's Avatar
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    Well off course itīs not a huge thing. But in a way it does, I donīt mean spammers should go to jail or something like that.
    When there was a link here for a news about some spammers getting 9 years in jail, I felt sorry for him ( although I think he ripped off a bunch of people, donīt remember ).
    but,

    I didn't imply that at all. What I'm trying to say is that jsut because you're being a jerk it doesn't give me a right to go to your house, rip your phone out of the wall, kick you in the balls, and take your wallet.
    Thatīs why I said before that if they make their bussiness by spamming our emails ( something we donīt want ), we wouldnīt be doing anything wrong by just taking that away from them.

  15. #30
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dead tree
    Thatīs why I said before that if they make their bussiness by spamming our emails ( something we donīt want ), we wouldnīt be doing anything wrong by just taking that away from them.
    That's not what this is, though. This is actively attacking their servers and costing them a lot of money in bandwidth.

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