Satan

This is a discussion on Satan within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >>so what is a tuxist, anyway? Tuxists were my GREAT idea. Our god is the great Tux (LOL). Instead of ...

  1. #31
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    LOL

    >>so what is a tuxist, anyway?

    Tuxists were my GREAT idea. Our god is the great Tux (LOL).
    Instead of heaven people go to the great computer, where exists no bugs and neither the 'bluescreen'.
    Truely speaking I was so bored (and full of hate to the Windows(c,r,tm,etc.)) that I got this crazy idea. It's to make a new religion. To register it there has to be at least 20 members and now there are already 3 of them.

    Would you like to join us?
    At least you could make up some rules etc. for this "religion"

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by Series X4 1.0


    For each individual human being, life is to be trapped in a dying, aging body, programmed with lies to make us act as we are 'told'. Except for all the lies, we're filled with the greatest of emptiness. Together our bodies form the evolution - which is a war, a chaos, in which we are dying and being sorted out to find the most efficient offspring, to be replaced with the next generation of life. This will lead mankind somewhere, but we are temporary, we are here in a primitive stage of the evolution.
    If it is true that there is no heaven or hell, that we are simply bodies and the soul merely a name for something within the body, then you still fail to approach the situation in a positive manner.

    There are many ways to have meaning in life, even if we will fade into oblivion. Nietzsche argued in Zarathustra that we can find meaning by making the evolution of the superman (the next step in human evolution, essentially) the purpose of our lives. He argues that evolution is the true driving force of humanity, and that mankind, like our ape ancestors, is a thing to be surpassed; not the final ebb of the tide of evolution, but a part of it.

    I would argue that you can have meaning even without this. A life does not need to fit into a larger whole to have meaning -- you can CREATE meaning. Simply because something ceases to exist hardly means that it was meaningless. Live your life for the meaning that you ascribe to it.

    If, however, you reject the meaning that people try to teach you, and then you fail to create meaning for yourself, you can't complain, in good faith, that your life is meaningless. Yes, it is meaningless, because you created no meaning for yourself. A meaning which we give to ourselves is no less grand than a meaning that the universe gives to us. Meaning does not need to exist outside of ourselves for it to be.

    You are empty because you do not create. Like a creator, you have rejected those ideas given you, but you do not make your own to replace them, and so you suffer in the emptiness you fail to fill. Life is empty? Yes, life is empty when you have chosen to empty it, and refuse to fill it anew. But life need not be empty, unless you choose it to be.
    Last edited by The V.; 11-26-2001 at 01:13 PM.

  3. #33
    Registered User Camilo's Avatar
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    as simple as this:
    ¿who needs meaning?
    - nothing has meaning


    Camilo
    Last edited by Camilo; 11-26-2001 at 10:44 AM.
    no, life is nice, just a girl fooling around, alcohol fixes everything.
    OH, I now have a High School Diploma and need of ron (drink)

  4. #34
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    The V.

    If it is true that there is no heaven or hell, that we are simply bodies and the soul merely a name for something within the body, then you still fail to approach the situation in a positive manner.
    Of course I fail, but only from your positive and personal way of thinking. And you fail to see your life in a realistic and negative manner.

    I would argue that you can find meaning even without this. A life does not need to fit into a larger whole to have meaning -- you can CREATE meaning.
    You're talking about the meaning of life as it's something I havn't seen, something I should discover. I've been there, we all have I guess, do you remember how it was to be a little kid? The world was rich because we were small. With insight and as we gain experience, those values dies. When (if) you're 80, the world you live in will probably be completely empty, death will seem just as pointless as life. Some of us can realize this too fast for our own good, it's 'supposed' to happen when you're old.

    You can fight, but you'll always lose. Everything you are creating is dying.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by Series X4 1.0


    Of course I fail, but only from your positive and personal way of thinking. And you fail to see your life in a realistic and negative manner.



    You're talking about the meaning of life as it's something I havn't seen, something I should discover. I've been there, we all have I guess, do you remember how it was to be a little kid? The world was rich because we were small. With insight and as we gain experience, those values dies. When (if) you're 80, the world you live in will probably be completely empty, death will seem just as pointless as life. Some of us can realize this too fast for our own good, it's 'supposed' to happen when you're old.

    You can fight, but you'll always lose. Everything you are creating is dying.
    Every created thing perishes -- the transient nature of life, of created things in no way diminishes the need to create, nor does it diminish the benefits of creation in general. The building I live in will one day fall, yet it provides a purpose when it exists. The clothes that I wear will not last forever, yet when they do exist, they protect my body.

    Realism is not necessarily negative. You claim I say to "discover meaning" -- I never do this; this implies that meaning exists beyond yourself, that you must "find". I think this is a flawed approach. I think that it is possible that there is a meaning to the universe, but I do not require such a meaning for my beliefs.

    Rather, I take the realistic approach that there is no meaning inherent in the universe, at least none that I am capable of understanding. Does this mean that there CAN BE no meaning in my life? Hardly. What I argue you should do, is not discover meaning, but CREATE meaning. Build a meaning for your own life. You won't "find" it, because it doesn't exist "out there". So, your choices are to borrow the meanings that other people have created, or to create a new meaning for yourself.

    The world, for you, is empty because you empty it by your own will. You will never "find" meaning, and so you conclude that meaning doesn't exist. But you CHOOSE to live in a world without meaning, because you choose to reject the meaning that others have provided, and you choose not to make meaning for yourself.

    Meaning is just as real if you make it as if you could find it. You'll never "find" a skyscraper except for those which we (humans) have made, but this doesn't mean that skyscrapers are not real because they do not exist in the absence of humanity. In the same way, a meaning which is the creation of humanity is no less real than a meaning which exists in the absence of humanity, if such a thing could even exist.

    Your argument is basically that:

    A) You can have no meaning because every created thing perishes. It is true that everything created will perish, but it doesn't mean that creating is a foolish or unnecessary pursuit -- rather, it means creating is EVEN MORE necessary, because one must create to replace that which has fallen.

    B) You can't find any meaning if you look to the universe. This is probably true, but it certainly doesn't stop you from creating a new meaning that you give to yourself.

    Also, death, destruction, and chaos are not negatives. Without them, creation is impossible, because the destruction of created things creates room for creation.

    You may say, there is no permanence, there is no higher purpose, there is nothing which can be created which will endure forever. I say, you're right. But this in no way invalidates life, or living, or meaning.

    You look at life, and you find that it is empty, and in its emptiness you despair. I look at life, find that it is empty, so I create things to fill it, and I enjoy life and living.
    Last edited by The V.; 11-26-2001 at 01:15 PM.

  6. #36
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    Well thought out... well put... and a very good philosophy, V. We should have more people like you in this world.
    Blue

  7. #37
    31173 h4x0r gnu-ehacks's Avatar
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    Series, I respect your belief. If you believe that there is no life after death, and that we all are just rotting flesh, who am I to protest that? Although, that doesn't have to be so negative. There are many evolutionists out there who believe the same thing that you believe, but you might as well enjoy life while you still have it, or you might as well be dead.

    I apologize if I've offended you, and I feel like this discussion is useless, because all we are doing is trying to prove our beliefs, and I'm pretty sure I can't convince you that my beliefs are true, and I'm pretty sure that you can't convince me that your beliefs are true, so I'm just going to bow out, unless I find something really good to say.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

    Jesus Freak, D.C. Talk

    -gnu-ehacks

  8. #38
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    One last thing.
    Anyone heard of the Jerusalem Syndrome?

    Some people who go to Jerusalem start to believe they are Jesus Christ reincarnated.
    Usually it wears off in a couple of days but some take years. Most are just very embarased after the fact.

    It is so wide spead that there is a clinic to deal with it.

    Point being

    (faith = hope - proof ) == TRUTH
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  9. #39
    31173 h4x0r gnu-ehacks's Avatar
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    Yeah...I heard of Jerusalem Syndrome. Might I say, it must be some strange thing.

    Now, I have a question. Is it just Jerusalem, or is it all of Israel? The reason I ask this is because Israel has very many religious sites, away from Jerusalem.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

    Jesus Freak, D.C. Talk

    -gnu-ehacks

  10. #40
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    You mean say the Mecca Syndrome?

    The Varanasi(?) / Gangies (?) Syndrome?

    Could be.

    Maybe Christians are just less stable than others.
    (kidding)
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  11. #41
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    >>Anyone heard of the Jerusalem Syndrome?


    Yeah...its supposedly quite common....

    I think I heard that David Koresh (sp?) spent some time in jarusalem and returned as the son of god

  12. #42
    Registered User cody's Avatar
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    Hmm I think the devil *has* a gender. God is female and looks exactly like Alanis Morisette, so the devil as counterpart must be male

    Go and see "Dogma", then you'll understand

    aloa
    cody
    #include "reallife.h"

  13. #43
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >If you don't have morals, then you have nothing to live for.

    There seems to be a fundamental difference between morals and
    religion. While I know many people who are more-or-less-christians
    ( maybe agnostics would be the right word ) and who live by our
    values and morals that are widely accepted in about any civilized
    culture, I also see people who are so blinded by their religion
    that they don't adhere to the most basic morals civilisation has to
    offer: thou shall not kill. This is christian commandment #1, but I
    guess all other major religions and peoples recognize this as well.
    No civilisation would have evolved without this fundamental law in
    place. And the only people breaking this law are criminals and
    religious fanatics.


    Being agnostic myself, I don't believe there exist the guy with the
    white beard nor the guy with the tail and fork heating up hell.
    I don't know if there is a higher force that created us. Maybe there
    is. If there is, physics state that there never is a single force.
    Every action forces a reaction. So maybe there is a destructive
    force as well. Whatever comes, we will only see when we die.
    From my point of view, it's highly speculative to blindly believe
    it will get better after death. You have a life to live right now.
    If you don't use it, don't complain later in case there is no second
    chance. There is enough good and evil here on earth to be occupied
    for a lifetime.


    >because anhilation after death is just not logical.

    Sorry to correct you, but annihilation after death is what is proven.
    Just look into a grave. Your believe is the illogical part, because
    there is no clue it is correct. Mind, I'm not saying you are wrong.
    I'm just saying you just can't prove it.


    >In my opinion I have more rights than you have

    No. You have the same rights as every other person. It's just that
    people with more restrictive religious guidelines don't use their
    rights to the full extend, while people with less restrictive
    rules tend to overstep their bounds frequently and maybe even
    without noticing.


    >we are here in a primitive stage of the evolution

    While you might be right, you aren't drawing the logical conclusions.
    Being a part of this evolution, you wouldn't be able to see whether
    it's still in a primitive stage. It could also be just a single step
    from the perfect end.


    >Except for all the lies,

    You are talking about believes. You both have an oppinion about what is
    the truth. As neither of you has proof, you cannot decide if one of
    you is lying. But as in any discussion, both of you are screaming 'liar'.


    >You can fight, but you'll always lose. Everything you are creating is dying.

    Well, without fighting you have already lost. If you try, you have a fighting
    chance. And after all, some made it. Caesar died. But in our minds, he's still
    alive. Shakespeare is no less dead than the next body. But his creations are
    still struggling *g* If you need a meaning in your life, go get one. If you
    don't, stop complaining.
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  14. #44
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    nvoigt

    >In my opinion I have more rights than you have

    No. You have the same rights as every other person.
    Yes, according to some people, including you of course. What people have the right to do depends in general on themselves in my opinion. Religous people, as an example, are always limited because of their internal rules, some of them can not even allow themselves to get drunk, for example. Therefore I have more rights than most people because basicly I don't have a moral. They say I don't have the right to kill someone, but I can do it anyway, therfore I have that right.

    >we are here in a primitive stage of the evolution

    While you might be right, you aren't drawing the logical conclusions.
    Being a part of this evolution, you wouldn't be able to see whether
    it's still in a primitive stage. It could also be just a single step
    from the perfect end.
    It is primitive because I can see another world.

    >Except for all the lies,

    You are talking about believes. You both have an oppinion about what is
    the truth. As neither of you has proof, you cannot decide if one of
    you is lying. But as in any discussion, both of you are screaming 'liar'.
    Which is your opinion, according to your own view you can also be the liar (in my opinion) - this argument can always be applied, therefore, the one with the strongest will is often going to 'win' and affect the others - and so far, that person is always me.

  15. #45
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    It's humorous to read your posts, at times, Series.

    You claim to have more powerful of a will than everyone else, yet by your statements you also do a good job of proving yourself wrong. Only a fool has no morals -- morals are nothing more than part of the way we define ourselves, they are a code we try to live by. If you truly have no morals, no code by which you live, then you obviously don't have a very strong will -- a strong will shapes the self, molds the self into the form you desire. Morals are simply an extension of self control, which is the hallmark of any strong will.

    Further, any strong willed person will be a creator -- you have already proven your inability to create; you choose to suffer in emptiness instead of creating to fill it.

    Listening to you speak of your superiority reminds me of watching a homeless man scream out that he was the King of England, and more powerful than the passersby. Yet he still sleeps on the cold streets, and we do not. Similarly, you can proclaim your superiority, but you still have to live a life which, by your own words, is empty and free of morals.

    Further, if you were truly intellectually superior, you would realize that death, decay, morals, etc. are not harmful things; in fact, each is vital. A person who imposes no rules upon his own actions has no self-control, because to have self-control is to divide the possible actions you could do into actions you should do, and actions you should not. In this way, anyone with self control will find certain actions "good" and others "bad".

    It's rather sophomoric to simply equate things like death, morality, transience, etc. with being "bad", and things like freedom with being "good". Taken to extremes, each of these is bad. Each, however, is a vital part of life, and must be present in appropriate quantities. You fail to acknowledge that these ideas are complex, and interact with each other, and form many shades of gray.

    A person with no morals, nor laws, nor any kind of rule to constrain his freedom is no better than an animal. Absolute freedom comes at the cost of total lack of self control, and total lack of a will. Absolute enslavement is torment to the will. Somewhere in between absolute freedom and absolute enslavement is the path of the truly wise. They control themselves, they constrain their actions in a manner of their choosing, while retaining the freedoms they need and desire.

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