forged Bush docs

This is a discussion on forged Bush docs within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...uments-_Forged...

  1. #31
    i dont know Vicious's Avatar
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    What is C++?

  2. #32
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    I'm not saying freedom of speech is not a great right. Without it you turn into a police state and a dictator-ship. I just think that all too often people lie, or practice other forms of speech that are clearly harmful, and manage to hide behind the 1st ammendment. For a separate example, Freedom of assembly. Now that was put in their to allow people to practice their religion, have things like political conventions. But if people are convening with the purpose of causing harm to the country, they can easily hide behind freedom of assembly if police break up the gathering. Now granted, you can easily get into a Red Scare / McCarthyism situation here, but I really do think that as it is, the 1st Ammendment is abused.

  3. #33
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > regardless of who made them, Rather is not stupid. He knows they're fake. Whatever else he knows remains to be seen, but his cover-up is illegal.

    He may know now, but you've got no evidence at all that he knew beforehand or participated in making them in the first place.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FillYourBrain
    no, no. freedom of speech is a great right. But perhaps you should lose the distinction of being considered a news source if you throw opinion in there. Opinion should probably be reserved for separate publications
    I don't know about that. I read a book a while back by Ben Bagdikian (sp?) called "The Media Monopoly" that had some interesting observations in it. For one thing, media outlets are owned by someone, they WILL have a bias in their reporting.
    After reading it, I saw that the New York Times had aquired the Boston Globe. According to The Times, The Globe would retain editorial autonomy. Watching McNeil Lehrer that evening they said that The Boston Globe would retain editorial autonomy...for five years.
    Another thing that he pointed out was that the newspapers in the early days of America were unabashedly biased. You knew their bias as soon as you read the headlines. And why not? You know what you're getting. If you want to see both sides (or more) of the issue, get a few papers and draw your own conclusions.
    I'd rather see that than the "unbiased" journalism that we have today.

  5. #35
    In The Light
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    Howdy,
    I don't believe most of what I hear on "Network News" and even less during an election cycle.

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  6. #36
    i dont know Vicious's Avatar
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    doob, Thats what I thought at first. But I dont know. If you look at that document...

    And would an old type-writer like that have a (th) symbol?

    [edit]
    I was replaying to d00b's post but he deleted it..
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  7. #37
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    Most typewriters from the time could produce a superscript "th"... in fact, the same "th" appears on other, official Bush records.

    Variable-spaced fonts have been available on typewriters since the 1940's.

    Times Roman was created in the 1930's, and the font used in the documents doesn't even match MS Times New Roman.

    Take a typewriting class, one of the first things you'll learn is how to center text.

    The scanned documents floating around on the internet are "copies of copies". So-called analysts and experts aren't even judging the actual documents, but they're making WILD claims of being able to make accurate judgements about them.



    Nobody on this board has seen the actual documents, so saying, "They're real!", or, "They're forgeries!", instantly makes you a lemming moron.

    Personally, I don't give a care about the issue. But hey, some people like this kinda stuff, it makes them feel like they're contributing to "politics" somehow.

    Mmm... go ahead, bring the negative rep my way.

  8. #38
    i dont know Vicious's Avatar
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    I think its just the thrill of the controversy. It clouds most peoples common sense.
    I am a huge victim of this as it happens to me quite regularly. I hear something like this and I look for reasons (in this case) why it could be fake instead of why it could be real.
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  9. #39
    BMJ
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    This guy is an obviously blind...

    Please don't get all weird if you think one way or another on the issue... I'm just saying, this particular guy needs glasses, and possibly more information (standard text kerning, typewriters, TTF and Windows, etc).
    Last edited by BMJ; 09-13-2004 at 12:58 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMJ
    this particular guy needs
    By that you mean the guy who wrote that article, and not me right?


    [edit]
    Go to that link I posted and in the "original" look at the words memo and SUBJECT... if you look close, you will see that the letters are not straight. (They are not perfectly parallel with each other)

    If you take time and really look at that thing, it really does look like a typewriter printout.
    Last edited by Vicious; 09-13-2004 at 01:09 AM.
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  11. #41
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    Fake or not, are they accurate?
    Does it matter?

    Why has no other servicemen come forward to back up GWB? We have plenty of vets talking about Kerry's service.

    Either way it looks like he got preferential treatment and was not sent to Vietnam at a time when 50 US servicemen were dying a day.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...bush072899.htm

    All that is needed is 'plausable denyability'.
    Look at the US POW abuse. The initial IRC reports (and UK images) were dismissed.


    On a related note....

    Freedom of the press does not extend to the 'democracy' the US is installing in Iraq.

    http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040807_595.html
    "They have been showing a lot of crimes and criminals on TV, and they transfer a bad picture about Iraq and about Iraqis and encourage criminals to increase their activities,"

    That couldn't be because the attacks from the insurgents are increasing rapidly?

    He said the closure inhibits the "right of the Arab people around the world to see a comprehensive picture about what's going on in an important region like Iraq."

    Nor does it include the US if you say things the US does not like.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ra.nyse.ap.ap/
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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  12. #42
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    why have no service men come forward? A couple of the CBS "sources" have come forward and said they were misled and manipulated by CBS. They have come forward on other media outlets. That's right, the evil conservative media outlets. But they were the same people CBS sited as having backed up the story. CBS response? We believed them the first time we talked to them. PLEEEAAASE!!!! They manipulated them and quoted them out of context without letting them see the documents.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  13. #43
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    doob, the argument you make is the same that CBS put forward. These features may have been available at that time in various different high-end models. The sum total of all of these features certainly would not have existed in something that this guy would have in his office.

    CBS has not adequately answered the critics and is attempting to let the story die quietly. I hope people don't let that happen.

    An easy fix? Reproduce the docs with a typewriter that existed at that time in the way that we have done with Microsoft Word. If it could have been done we would see it out there already. It can't.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  14. #44
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    >>why have no service men come forward? A couple of the CBS "sources" have come forward and said they were misled and manipulated by CBS. They have come forward on other media outlets. That's right, the evil conservative media outlets.<<

    I think you misunderstand.

    What I ment was that if GWB had served as his record states then there would have been other servicemen who would have seen him, ie his planes ground crew.

    All it needs is one to say "I served with GWB in '73"

    Why has none come forward to debunk the claims he deserted or went AWOL?

    Seeing it has been 4 years since this question was raised and a $10,000 reward was offered.

    (or have they and I have missed the reports?)

    Either way this issue is just a smokescreen to hide that the cost of Iraq, in both US lives and money, is getting out of control and most of the world now distrusts the US (or is 'supporting' the US for the bribes it gives ie Free Trade Agreements).
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  15. #45
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    oh I see. I for one am not remotely interested in either candidate's military service any more than I am interested in their SAT scores. Ancient history. They were both foolish for touting their records at the start of their campaigns. Possible forgery to influence a campaign however... Not ancient history. A very big deal.

    By the way, the former secretary for Killian just chimed in. She claims that if these were legit, she would have typed them. She did not. Dan Rather is looking more and more foolish every day.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

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