Kinda surprised no one has mentioned this ("Under God" Decision")

This is a discussion on Kinda surprised no one has mentioned this ("Under God" Decision") within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Wearing a hajib or other religious symbols should not be banned for the sole reason it is freedom of speech. ...

  1. #76
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Wearing a hajib or other religious symbols should not be banned for the sole reason it is freedom of speech. If some, I am using this as an example, gay person in France wore a huge rainbow colored T-Shirt with the words "I am gay and proud of it" would they be punished? If not, then how is a Crucifix(which is not just a christian symbol, but an ancient Egyption symbol) or the Hajib(which can be viewed as a religiously based hat(which I presume are not banned)) be viewed as a inflamatory symbol anywhere close to my example?
    Well freedom of speech is an important point, but many countries (I don't know about the US) do not consider freedom of speech to be absolute per say, for example here in the UK it's against the law to incite violence, so there are some limitations on what i can say in public.

    I think France is worried about rising extremism, they have presumeably decided that banning religious symbols in school is worth the sacrifice in freedom of speech.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  2. #77
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    or example here in the UK it's against the law to incite violence, so there are some limitations on what i can say in public.
    Same here in the US. Best example I've ever heard about the limitations of free speech is that you can't go into a crowed movie theatre and yell fire (unless of course there was a fire). Doing so would put those people in danger.

  3. #78
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whackaxe
    theres no such thing? how do you figure that?
    read more of what I wrote I guess. I think I already expressed how there is no such thing as a constitutionally mandated separation of church and state. There is a court mandated one. I really think you should read things like this in context. I realize its a large thread but it's not too much to ask.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  4. #79
    Software Developer jverkoey's Avatar
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    I see exactly where you're coming from Clyde, and I agree with you completely. I didn't mean to imply that this was a flame war, as it has been pretty civil so far (it's not closed yet ). I was mainly just talking about these discussions in general. So I guess my argument doesn't really go anywhere, heh, I was just feeling like posting here I guess.

    *withdraws from the debate and goes back to getting ready for the 72GDC this weekend*

  5. #80
    'AlHamdulillah
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    Well freedom of speech is an important point, but many countries (I don't know about the US) do not consider freedom of speech to be absolute per say, for example here in the UK it's against the law to incite violence, so there are some limitations on what i can say in public.
    In cases of hate speech, the reason why it is "against the law" to run into a black pride rally and yell the 'N' word is so that the police can restrain you. This is not in order to take away your freedom of speech , but to GUARANTEE it, as by restraining you, they are protecting you from getting killed for what you said by any loose cannons in the group.

    just wanted to make sure people knew that just because something may seem to be against freedom of speech being absolute, it may bot be.
    @Clyde:

    What constitutes extremism, what about green peace advocates, who in the past couple years have escalated to commiting felonies such as vandalism and arson. Basically, there is no reason that any of the examples I have given should lead to greater extremism UNLESS they are oppressed for what they are saying/believing.

    I would not have a problem with France doing that, if it came out and said, " we are banning the support of any activist group, religious or otherwise, in the domains of our schools". That would atleast be consistent, ableit a little off the deep end.


    Basically, my overall opinion is that if you don't like the rules of a country, DONT LIVE THERE. It is relatively easy in this modern age to move from country to country if you want to.
    Last edited by EvBladeRunnervE; 06-21-2004 at 12:59 PM.

  6. #81
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    What constitutes extremism, what about green peace advocates, who in the past couple years have escalated to commiting felonies such as vandalism and arson. Basically, there is no reason that any of the examples I have given should lead to greater extremism UNLESS they are oppressed for what they are saying/believing.

    I would not have a problem with France doing that, if it came out and said, " we are banning the support of any activist group, religious or otherwise, in the domains of our schools". That would atleast be consistent, ableit a little off the deep end.
    Well it would seem that they are specifically afraid of rising religious extremism, rather than extremism in general. My only query is whether or not the measures they are taking will make any difference.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  7. #82
    'AlHamdulillah
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    Well it would seem that they are specifically afraid of rising religious extremism,
    seems pretty typical

    as for making a difference, maybe someone from france on this board could give us an update on France's state of affairs concerning crimes commited by religious extremists.

  8. #83
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    DavidP is undecided on the present issue at hand of the Pledge of Allegiance, and therefore abstains from voting in the Senate of CBoard until a later date.
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  9. #84
    & the hat of GPL slaying Thantos's Avatar
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    Bob Dole! (think the epsoide of the simpsons where the aliens take the form of dole and clinton)

  10. #85
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    I don't know, I think it's pretty clear that removing "under God" from various, state-endorsed things would make the most sense. I mean, can anyone really give a reason NOT to?

    Then again, it doesn't bother me all that much. It's just one of those pedantic little things that you know is wrong, but you can go on living with if you have to.

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