The Java language is being expanded

This is a discussion on The Java language is being expanded within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; I don't care how they designed or it why they designed it. It does not suit my needs as a ...

  1. #16
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I don't care how they designed or it why they designed it. It does not suit my needs as a suitable game dev language and therefore I have no need of it. Not to say that it is useless...but in my world it is.

    I don't research what does not apply to me in programming. There's too many areas in programming to do that. I concentrate on gamedev and as I said Java just doesn't cut it for that.

  2. #17
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    I think you're more interested in certain aspects of game development (Nice terrain thing on the GP forum, probably get about 4 FPS with Java3D ), Bubba. Bear in mind that you can program puzzle games for it and they work fine (The reason why all these mobile Java games are just rehashes of games from 15 years ago).

  3. #18
    Code Goddess Prelude's Avatar
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    >If you would do your research first you would see why they did what they did(i.e. input, enum, etc.).
    I'm well aware of why the design decisions were made. Perhaps you should be giving concrete examples of why you think everyone is so misinformed rather than simply saying "Do your research". We aren't your students, and that just won't cut it here.

    >If any of you ever have the chance to teach java and C++
    >you will see differences and advantages/disadvantages which each language has
    This strikes me as incredibly arrogant seeing as how you haven't shown a respectable depth of knowledge in your time here.
    My best code is written with the delete key.

  4. #19
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    >>If you would do your research first you would see why they did what they did

    >I'm well aware of why the design decisions were made.

    So am I. And in some aspects I fully agree with there decisions, but in other aspects I do not agree at all.

    >If any of you ever have the chance to teach java and C++
    >you will see differences and advantages/disadvantages which each language has

    I have had the opportunity to teach both languages, not as a full fledged teacher, but more as a tutor. In my experiences, the Java language has definitely been an easier language to learn than C++, but also in my experiences I have noticed that those I tutor in Java simply dont get the full load of what they should be learning about how things work on the inside. That is the main reason I support C++ being taught to people before Java. I am not a Java hater, I am simply a C++ advocate.
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  5. #20
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    That list of enhancements sounds like they saw what was better in C# ( and planned enhancements of C# ) and implemented it in Jave.
    hth
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  6. #21
    CS Author and Instructor
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    Posts: 5,796 Today, 08:13 AM >If you would do your research first you would see why they did what they did(i.e. input, enum, etc.).
    I'm well aware of why the design decisions were made. Perhaps you should be giving concrete examples of why you think everyone is so misinformed rather than simply saying "Do your research". We aren't your students, and that just won't cut it here.

    >If any of you ever have the chance to teach java and C++
    >you will see differences and advantages/disadvantages which each language has
    This strikes me as incredibly arrogant seeing as how you haven't shown a respectable depth of knowledge in your time here.
    Hold on here...Prelude.

    I am trying just make the point some people should research things first. Opinions are opinions- some people try to force opinions as facts on these boards.

    Now, are you going to argue that this is not true?

    As for my time here on this board- I only have time to post on this board when I have time to do so. I try to post my insights on my years of my teaching- and I have seeked help on occasions from people on this board to better myself and how I present things to my students.

    The point about teaching Java/C++, etc. does not make me superior- it does however make someone, I believe, more insight ful about comparing Java/C++.

    Now, I do not have to spell out noted comparisions/differents between the languages. Anyone can find that out on their own.

    Prelude, during your time on these boards, you have provided help and good advice. Your knowledge of C/C+ is extraordinary and -in my opionion-better than the major of the people on this board. Even quite possibly maybe even me.

    You and I are not perfect, Prelude. Your comments about me, show me your faults, especially when you do not know everything about me and my professional accomplishments. Once again, my opinion not fact.

    Now, back to the topic..

    For those of you that do not know... here is a summary of the new features of java. Java 1.5
    Mr. C: Author and Instructor

  7. #22
    Code Goddess Prelude's Avatar
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    >Now, are you going to argue that this is not true?
    To do so would be futile. There are times that I forget to mention that I'm stating opinion, so to deny your accuracy with that statement would be the height of hypocrisy.

    >it does however make someone, I believe, more insight ful about comparing Java/C++.
    It's silly to compare languages most of the time. When it makes sense to do so, the goal is usually to determine which language to use for a single project. At that point the comparisons are practical and serve a purpose. For the purpose of teaching, it depends on the individual learning the language. I've seen people take to C++ in a flash but be stumped by Java, as well as the opposite.

    >Anyone can find that out on their own.
    The question was about the reasoning behind features, not the features themselves. That's harder to find, and I wouldn't mind seeing someone else's perspective on specific issues rather than just a hard demand to do research.

    >Even quite possibly maybe even me.
    That's still a pretty arrogant view. I won't deny a certain amount of ego on my part, but I recognize that there are quite a few people on these boards that know more than I do and have more experience than I. Confidence is fine, but one should be aware of reality as well so that they can improve.

    >Your comments about me, show me your faults
    A short post isn't nearly enough for you to see all of my faults.

    >especially when you do not know everything about me and my professional accomplishments
    This is true. And that's the reason why I comment only on what I've experienced of your abilities. Around here it doesn't matter what you say you've accomplished, only what you prove that you've accomplished.

    Now that we've both responded to each other once, please direct further comments by way of private message so as to avoid a pointless flamewar. I'll do the same.
    My best code is written with the delete key.

  8. #23
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    I personally don't like Java as much as C++. This is mainly do to verboseness involved in writing classes that look like

    Code:
    class C  {
            public String toString();
    }
    the extra "public" variable takes away considerable clarity from the text. In fact, it would probably be more clear if the syntax was something like
    Code:
    class C {
            toString() : String;
    }
    this way the most important stuff is flushed left and in clear site, while the least important is further back. The issue about the semi-colon at the end seems more of a compiler issue. If C++ compilers would generate better guesses for some of the common mistakes this would not nearly be so much of a problem.

    The C++ model of having everything declared before use in the source file really is not necessary, and this could be improved by adopting Java's model.

    But I don't think having each public class in different file is such a good idea. This should probably be managed by the ide. Despite C++ namespaces being more flexible and consistant than Java's use of package statements, the use of namespaces makes indented text go too far to the right when indented.

  9. #24
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    I personally like how C++ does public/private/protected statements, for example:

    class A
    {
    public:
    ...lots of declarations...
    private:
    ...lots of declarations...
    };

    Whereas with both C# and Java you have to prefix every single declaration and definition with public, private, or protected, which I find quite annoying.
    My Website

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  10. #25
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    >> Despite C++ namespaces being more flexible and consistant than Java's use of package statements, the use of namespaces makes indented text go too far to the right when indented. <<

    My solution has always been simply not to indent inside of a namespace. It's the only place I don't indent, but it would seem rather silly to indent almost every line in a file for the sake of a couple of braces.

  11. #26
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    Prelude, during your time on these boards, you have provided help and good advice. Your knowledge of C/C+ is extraordinary and -in my opionion-better than the major of the people on this board. Even quite possibly maybe even me.
    Mister C, you've got to be kidding me??? You are comparing yourself to Prelude? Now that's funny!

  12. #27
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    I think Prelude is really good at the syntax and the C++ as a language but it's quite possible mister-C is an expert at something that Prelude's not and vice-versa. I don't find anything objectional to stating Java was easier to teach. In fact, I think Java will be easier to teach merely for the fact that someone can teach most of the fundamentals faster, and once known, a programer can actually start learning the process of how to program. But this does not necessarily make Java a better language.

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