Horrible

This is a discussion on Horrible within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Treating prisoners like that is wrong, and you can't take the mentality that 'oh this is war, people get hurt' ...

  1. #16
    Shadow12345
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    Treating prisoners like that is wrong, and you can't take the mentality that 'oh this is war, people get hurt' because once you are a prisoner you are no longer fighting.

    I agree with what Jawib said in his first post and what Zach said about the widespread killings. Everyone re-read those statements, and everyone else type less, nobody will read everything you write.

  2. #17
    Shadow12345
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    first, it's not a war, and second, if it was, what would you consider winning? ousting current leadership and taking control? wait... we already did that...
    and before anybody acts like a retard and disagrees with him, he's sort of right because we never declared war...although, if this isn't a war, I don't know what is (ol dubya refers to it as the war on terror doesn't he?).

  3. #18
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    yeah, all i got out of it is that you're a <Mod edit> idiot... do you really believe the united states would nuke any other country?!
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  4. #19
    Intranasal Heroin User Xterria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by major_small
    yeah, all i got out of it is that you're a <Mod edit> idiot... do you really believe the united states would nuke any other country?!
    yeah. better them than us. let's imagine for a second...the US destroying every non-democratic and terrorist nation. the only problem i can see from this is the large numbers of people who thought it was unethical to nuke the enemy, thus trying to rebel. but hey, we've got mob squads.
    can somebody please point out what when then go wrong? there we go, we've got world peace. people won't begin to understand this for hundereds of years. go ahead, call me crazy.

  5. #20
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    oh, so you want one empire with all the power in the world... good... then nobody has to get along or agree, because we'll all be told what to do and what to think... that's great... we have the power to take over the world, so why not? we're right all the time anyway, aren't we? even if we're not (which could never happen because we're always right), we're the ones in charge, so you can't say we're wrong because we'll kill you.
    Last edited by major_small; 05-11-2004 at 10:50 PM. Reason: more
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  6. #21
    Intranasal Heroin User Xterria's Avatar
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    right or wrong we may be, there can't be two sides contradicting eachother, or there'll be wars.

  7. #22
    Shadow12345
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    I'm kind of getting sick of the nuke everybody" attitude. I also don't think that the people that condone it are really dumb enough to believe it...I think they just don't care and are making a mockery of a world situation.

    EDIT:
    do you really believe the united states would nuke any other country?!
    I do.

  8. #23
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    that's the very basis of balance... the essence of our government... one side is supposed to disagree with eachother so nobody jumps into things... if the president wants to nuke people, there will be the environmentalists and educated (hippies, as you would call them) that would try to stop him. eventually, the debate tips in favor of one side enough to make it happen.

    maybe you should look at the model your very own government follows.
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  9. #24
    Intranasal Heroin User Xterria's Avatar
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    yeah, we can follow the rules of democracy, after the 3rd world waring countries are all gone, along with the terrorists they harbored. it makes you think, how much better would the world be without all those regions? had macarthur gotten his 50 nukes he asked for all of our enemies would be gone to this day. but why didn't he do it? because of the 'educated' people.

  10. #25
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    you're so completely ignorant and close-minded... I don't know why I even bother talking to you...
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  11. #26
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawib
    It's too bad really...I can't see any good resolution to this. We can't really just pull out without stopping or at least significantly slowing the violence (well we could, but it wouldn't look very good if we just gave up), but at the same time I don't see any way for the violence to stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by linuxdude
    And what do you suppose we do? Do you say we just leave Iraq like it is. Have the whole world look at us like idiots. Bush had a reason to go to Iraq. Even if their is no "weapons of mass destruction" Isn't the world better off without Sadam in office. He helped terrorist all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach L.
    the US is certainly no saint.
    While reading these posts I was reminded of the Vietnam War and also the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

    First of all I would like to comment on Zach's quote where he says, "the US is certainly no saint." I believe he is 100% correct in saying that. We (the USA) have gotten ourselves into so many political blunders it is hard to count.

    Right now I want to focus on the Vietnam War and then the Khmer Rouge. There are many facts about both of these things that most people simply do not know. Everyone knows that Ho Chi Minh was a supporter of Communism, and that the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia in the 70's, and that the Khmer Rouge committed genocide in Cambodia. Those are indisputable and widely known.

    However most things people here are one-sided and bias. Most people don't know that although Ho Chi Minh was a supporter of Communism, that was not his main goal, but his main goal was for a united Vietnam, not a seperated South and North Vietnam. Americans can equate that to the American Civil War. Abe Lincoln's single goal during the way was to have a united country. He was not fighting to abolish slavery. The difference between the two (in the scope of this discussion) is the style of government they supported.

    What many also do not know is that the USA supported the Khmer Rouge. The Khmer Rouge was a Communist regime. They committed a massive act of genocide in Cambodia. And America still supported them. In fact when the Khmer Rouge took power Vietnam warned America not to support them, but America did not listen. When genocide began to take place, Vietnam invaded Cambodia to stop it (among other political reasons), because it could not sit back and watch the people get killed. America continued to support the Khmer Rouge for many more years.

    There is no doubt that the United States has entered into political blunder after political blunder. Our record is in no way clean.

    I also, like Jawib, cannot see any good resolution to the current events in the Middle East. When the war began, I was pro-war. As I see the events that have taken place since that time, I think back and many times wish we had either done things differently or not gone into Iraq in the first place.

    I do not dispute linuxdude's argument that Saddam's regime needed to be stopped, however, it almost seems we have gotten ourselves into a larger conflict than we expected. And I do not mean that in a military way. Militarily we very easily dominate the situation, but politically it seems as if our position is getting weaker and weaker.

    It makes me think back to what George Washington said in his farewell address. He warned against meddling in foreign affairs too much. Certainly some affairs require our attention, however, must we be so attentive? I don't know. I will have to think about it. I don't have any conclusions right now, just a lot of observations that need thinking about.

    There is one thing I would like to point out to everyone, however. Go to:

    www.ourdocuments.gov

    It is an excellent website that contains the 100 most important milestone documents of American history. It is really a great website. Take a look at George Washington's Farewell Address. I think it provides some valuable insights.
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  12. #27
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I think we should stick to discussing code on the board because of threads like this. All I can say is I saw the video and I feel very sorry for the man and his family..it truly is horrible.

    It is horrifying what the human race is capable of regardless of race, creed, nationality, etc. Perhaps one day we will learn that deep down we all want the same things out of life. Perhaps one day we can focus our efforts on more important things than just finding new way to kill one another. We all have to live on planet Earth...why not make it a pleasant experience?

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  13. #28
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    one possible resolution is that our "boys" should be able to use any means necessary to win this war, and not to worry about "media scandals" and such. This includes killing anyone who might be a suspected enemy.
    Wow axon, I am surprised to see you spout such garbage. In a war where you are defending yourself, one could argue that you should be able to use any means necessary in winning. But we are the aggressors here! We supposedly went to Iraq to liberate the iraqi people, and then we just go and shoot whoever looks at us funny?!

    And its interesting how you miss the irony of your comment in the wake of what happened to the american. You say we should be able to use "any means necessary" to win, well that is probably the exact sentiment that those who are attacking our soldiers, who beheaded that american and even all the islamic terrorists in general use to justify their actions.


    put yourself in the positions of those soldiers...if you saw your buddy's head exploded from enemy fire, you would do the same if put in that position
    So your saying the stress of war excuses the abuse at that prison? Well, firstly, those guards at that prison werent the ones on the front lines so they dont have that excuse. Also, you seem to forget that there were rapes and murders at that and other prisons. The stress of war by no means justifies that. Furthermore, that argument will just as easily justify abuse and torture of american POWs and noncombatants in the hands of iraqi fighters. Mistreatment of unarmed prisoners is unjustifiable under and circumstance.

    Of course, it cant be avoided in every situation, but thats why we are supposed to have commanders oversee prisions like that to make sure any abuse or potential abusive situations are resolved before they get to the level that they reached at Abu Ghraib. Apparently there werent any there.
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  14. #29
    Registered User loopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermi3
    I suppose this is expected retaliation for our actions. I'm not saying I approve of either actions but.....

    I'm not accusing him of knowingly allowing the tortures, but I would like to take this oppertunity to thank dear President Bush for this pointless war. I really feel that my tax dollars are being put to good use.
    I agree, I think whoever turned the other cheek with the tortures forgot the US facade of stern/all knowing/helpfull, I would guess this is a retaliation, and that there will be more to come.

  15. #30
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    This tragedy makes me question our nation's policy against negotiating with terrorists. According to the murderers in the video, Nick Berg, 26, of West Chester, Pa., would still be alive today had the United States traded him for some prisoners our nation is detaining. Why again is it that we don't negotiate with terrorists? I'd think that if we can save lives, we should do so.

    Also, I wonder how it is that civilian Americans are being captured. With something like 150,000 military troops there, why is our nation not providing protection to our citizens in Iraq? I'd think that assigning military bodyguards to our citizens there is well worth it rather than lose innocent civilians.
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