A Good Discussion - Stay on Topic

This is a discussion on A Good Discussion - Stay on Topic within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by JaWiB The way I see it, the pledge of allegiance is a very small issue, and the ...

  1. #31
    Rad gcn_zelda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaWiB
    The way I see it, the pledge of allegiance is a very small issue, and the phrase should probably just be taken out if it offends people so much.
    What I'm saying is that if it offends people so much, then they should get a life...


    Seriously...

  2. #32
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken-
    How on Earth do you propose encouraging religion in general without encouraging a specific religion? And then how do you incorporate religion into the system without stepping on the rights of others? Indeed, it is invariable that incorporating religion into the government will trample on the rights of people not of that religion. "We're instituting this law to stone homosexuals to death because the bible tells us to" may make sense to you, but not to the rest of us.
    Stone homosexuals to death makes sense to me? i know you are just exaggerating to make a point, but still, that's something i would never encourage and the bible would never say.
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  3. #33
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    >> Fact: This country was founded by Christians.
    Umm... Christianity was by far the dominant religion at the time. The result is that a lot of the founders were Christians. There were, however, those among them who were not.

    ---

    At any rate, I do not think the government should have any role in "encouraging", passing legislation regarding, or in any other way dealing with religion. I don't think "under God" should be in the pledge, but I also think that the debate on this issue is ridiculous. The issue is trivial. There are a lot of other things that need to be fixed, and if they were, then this would very likely not even be an issue.

  4. #34
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    David:

    >>> that's something i would never encourage and the bible would never say.

    Leviticus 20:13...

    If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

    It doesn't specifically mention stoning I suppose, but I believe it was popular at the time, at least it was in the Life of Brian.
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  5. #35
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    "In God We Trust" was added to currency starting with the penny in 1909 and the dime in 1916
    That probably was meant to say "In God we trust, all others pay cash". It's not so much a statement about religion, but one about banking


    I think government and religion should be seperated. It currently isn't. Marriage for example is a religious institution. But it's legal framework is set by the state. However, which or how many people you marry in the religous sense should be your decision. No state should control and enforce marriages. If my religion says I can be married to a chinese domina, a canadian male whale and a couple of carrots until one of us rots or gets eaten, then so be it. Thats a contract between you and your partners. If all consented then no state should interfere if no ones rights are harmed.

    If the state wants to give incentives for a male and female to join and procreate by lowering taxes for those couples and giving them special legal benefits, then by all means it should be free to do so. Simply name it a "family". But that's not a christian marriage and those two things should not get mixed up.

    If the state wants to allow same sex couples to found "families" then that's no problem. That would not mean that christians have to accept same sex "marriages". Because it's two different things. But as a majority, we have not realized that though we want to seperate state and church, we still haven't. Religion in the form of christian believes and customs crept into most ceremonies and laws.

    Added:

    > This is no more different than the chants that Hitler taught his troops during the holocoust (sp?).

    Only difference being that mainstream Christians believe in rightiousness and moral behavior, those supported by our laws. Hitler taught hate, destruction, anti-semitism, etc. Those are not supported with any of our laws. There is a big difference.
    No, that's no difference. If you had asked a Nazi, what he supports, he would have said that he believes in rightiousness and moral behaviour supported by their laws. It's all about context. Being moral in your own context isn't hard.
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  6. #36
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidP
    Stone homosexuals to death makes sense to me? i know you are just exaggerating to make a point, but still, that's something i would never encourage and the bible would never say.
    You should probably read a copy of that.

    Anyhow, you never really answered my questions:

    "How on Earth do you propose encouraging religion in general without encouraging a specific religion? And then how do you incorporate religion into the system without stepping on the rights of others?"

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    I'm an atheist and could care less. I *believe* the original pledge was w/o "under God," but like I said, I don't really care and cant see why an atheist would - I could see a Christian wanting to keep it though. I say "under God" and all but think nothing off it. That's the way most atheists probably are.

    (I havenít read much yet, but thought I'd saw what I ahd to say)

  8. #38
    zsaniK Kinasz's Avatar
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    Where do you have morals without religion, define right and wrong. Eventually you will have an anarchist system where the people believe whatever they see accepted on tv is morally right. Christianity was the basis for most western nation laws because at the time of founding for most of these nations it was the determinate between right and wrong.

    I am not arguing for or against the phrase ( it all seems a petty argument to me ) because there is no longer a majority population of christians in the US and it seems almost pointless to call yourselves a christion nation.
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  9. #39
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    >>>
    Where do you have morals without religion, define right and wrong. Eventually you will have an anarchist system where the people believe whatever they see accepted on tv is morally right.
    <<<

    There is just so much wrong with that it is difficult to even begin to reply.

    Has it ocurred to you that most religions in the world teach brotherly love, though shalt not kill, don't steal, all these kinds of things, because people thought it was a good idea.

    Moral people created the religions by and large, i.e. you are completely about face, the morals predate the religion.

    I am an aetheist, always have been, I watch TV as well. Why is it that whackos like David Koresh, the religious nutter kill people and not me? Surely by now, (I've been watching TV for 40+ years), I should be a homicidal maniac?
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  10. #40
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > Where do you have morals without religion, define right and wrong.



    > Christianity was the basis for most western nation laws because at the time of founding for most of these nations it was the determinate between right and wrong.



    > there is no longer a majority population of christians in the US and it seems almost pointless to call yourselves a christion nation.



    You really have no idea what you're talking about.

  11. #41
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    There are always radicals in EVERY group.

  12. #42
    Board Conservative UnregdRegd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy5
    There are always radicals in EVERY group.
    What about among the moderates? Are there radicals among them? I didn't think so.
    I am a programmer. My first duty is to God, then to nation, then to employer, then to family, then to friends, then to computer, and finally to myself. I code with dignity, honor, and integrity.

  13. #43
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    Moderates aren't a group. Christians, Republicans, business leaders, teachers, etc. They are groups. Moderates are just a subsection of a group like a radical is. There are moderate Republicans and radical Republicans.

  14. #44
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    I suppose there could be people who find the exact center in every issue.

  15. #45
    Rad gcn_zelda's Avatar
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    Maybe.

    Probably not. Somebody always leans to one side or another.

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