Who are you?

This is a discussion on Who are you? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by Waldo2k2 >>If you thought before you spoke, I might give you an ounce of credit. where the ...

  1. #16
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Waldo2k2
    >>If you thought before you spoke, I might give you an ounce of credit.

    where the hell is oxford???

    ease up man i wasn't being serious
    Sorry if I took you too seriously. I've been known to do that often. It just ticks me off that people don't take an argument seriously just because it seems unlikely or counterintuitive. Even worse, it really ........es me off when people spout uneducated opinions like, "He's such an idiot! He's completely wrong!" without any supporting arguments. Arguments aren't won by shouting the loudest. I wish people would sincerely try to discuss an issue like this.
    FAQ

    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

  2. #17
    PC Fixer-Upper Waldo2k2's Avatar
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    >>In Britain.

    i know
    PHP and XML
    Let's talk about SAX

  3. #18
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    Even worse, it really ........es me off when people spout uneducated opinions like, "He's such an idiot! He's completely wrong!" without any supporting arguments.
    I was just about to post the same thing until I saw your post. I think those who are just dismissing his argument as stupid really dont understand it.
    C Code. C Code Run. Run Code Run... Please!

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  4. #19
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Educated or not this guy's got too much time on his hand too even be thinking about this.

  5. #20
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    Of course stuff like this is what professors of philosophy do with their time =P

    but I think he neglected a few things. Most notably, I think his probabilities are way off.
    can you elaborate?

    well, I mean, obviously those three possibilities are the only ones that would make sense, right?
    if you have some other possible senarios that arent covered by those three, lets here em.

    Just trying to jump-start some meaningful discussion, although I'm not sure why I care =/
    C Code. C Code Run. Run Code Run... Please!

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  6. #21
    Registered User caroundw5h's Avatar
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    Educated or not this guy's got too much time on his hand too even be thinking about this.

    That is the only time one can think on these levels and come to any significant conclusion. One can only truly know themselves when they spend time alone. Not to mention find out truths.

  7. #22
    King of the Internet Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Find out truths? Yeah...

  8. #23
    zsaniK Kinasz's Avatar
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    if you have some other possible senarios that arent covered by those three, lets here em
    1. We are the first species to evolve to our current level of intelligence and technology?

    2. Jesus is the son of God

    3. I think it was Renee Descretes who said " I think therefore i am" and there are a few religions where people think they are god. Dont know how i feel about this one.


    I think it is a very well thought through argument, however pointless by it's own conclusion.

    Another thought.. perhaps you are the only simulated mind. Everything else, including people, that you interact with is conjured up by the simulator to see what you'll do.
    "Assumptions are the mother of all **** ups!"

  9. #24
    Registered User caroundw5h's Avatar
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    1. We are the first species to evolve to our current level of intelligence and technology?

    Jesus is the son of God

    Prove it.

    On both counts.

  10. #25
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    1. We are the first species to evolve to our current level of intelligence and technology?
    Of course that is *possible*, but there is no evidence to support that claim. Whether we are the first or a simulation or a simulation run by an advanced civilization inside a simulation, it would be indistinguishable as far as we are concerned. Furthermore, that really has no bearing on his argument.

    I think it is a very well thought through argument, however pointless by it's own conclusion.
    Depends on what you consider pointless. The conclusion that it is probable that we are living in a simulation may not (does it?) have any direct bearing on how we live our life day to day, although it is interesting to consider it.

    [edit]
    Another thought.. perhaps you are the only simulated mind. Everything else, including people, that you interact with is conjured up by the simulator to see what you'll do.
    Hmmm, now how would that affect the way we live our lives day to day
    Last edited by *ClownPimp*; 12-23-2003 at 10:12 AM.
    C Code. C Code Run. Run Code Run... Please!

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  11. #26
    Its not rocket science vasanth's Avatar
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    May be we are inside a simulation that is inside another simulation which is inside another simulation............... blah blah blah blah

  12. #27
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by caroundw5h
    Prove it.

    On both counts.
    He was just throwing out random, stupid, unprovable arguments. Just like the guy in the article.


    Oh shi--I've said too much! THE BLACK HELICOPTERS OUT TO GET MEWJKEWQROIAJDFPOIJADFOPAWDJFPOJSAD....

  13. #28
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    That is the only time one can think on these levels and come to any significant conclusion. One can only truly know themselves when they spend time alone. Not to mention find out truths.
    ??

    You really need to get out more.

  14. #29
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    After reading more of the papers on that Web site, I have found more convincing evidence of a high probability that we are living in a simulation.
    The more likely our descendants are to be rich, long-lasting, and interested in simulating us, the more simulations of people like us we should expect there to be on average, relative to real people like us. And so the more we expect our descendants to be rich like this, the more we should expect that we are in fact living in a simulation [Bostom 2001].
    I think that makes good sense. I think it's commonly accepted that our species will either never achieve a posthuman stage or posthumans will be very technologically advanced. If posthumans have the technology, resources, and desire to simulate us, they will.

    Now on to the probability. There are now about 6 billion of us living right now. Say posthumans run exactly one simulation of this time period full scale. The probability of being in a simulation is already 50%. If they simulate a single person more, the chances are that we are in a simulation.

    Now think how long the posthumans could last.
    If we now suppose that human civilization lasts for ten thousand generations after the C-threshold, and has an average population of ten billion, there will be 1.0 x 1014 MD-streams, compared with 2 x 1012 original D-streams. With fifty simulated streams for every real stream, you have a one in fifty chance of actually being alive in the year 2002. On more optimistic scenarios, your predicament is even more precarious. If humankind has a long history one million generations exist after the C-threshold, say, with constant or improving technology and a larger average population during this period a hundred billion, say then we can expect a total of around 1.0 x 1017 MD-streams to occur, which would reduce your chances of being alive in 2002 to around one in fifty thousand! In this case, even if only one in a thousand people ever take a virtual reality trip back to 2002, the chances that you are really living in 2002 are still only one in fifty.
    Basically, the more likely that posthumans are to run simulations more frequently, the higher the chance that we now live in a simulation.
    FAQ

    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

  15. #30
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I wish someone would simulate closing this thread.

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