View Poll Results: what do you think of the ruling

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  • I agree with it (pro same-sex marriages)

    28 50.91%
  • I disagree with it

    24 43.64%
  • not sure

    3 5.45%

same sex marriages

This is a discussion on same sex marriages within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by Fountain People should be equal but they aint, and nobody especially Clyde is gonna change it. Clyde ...

  1. #121
    napKINfolk.com napkin111's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fountain
    People should be equal but they aint, and nobody especially Clyde is gonna change it. Clyde I suppose your also a vegan who stays in tents on your holidays/up trees protesting.
    Alright, this ........es me off. Clyde goes through stating rationally as he believes, and you've got to be a dick and flame him?? You know why people aren't equal, because that is your perspective. The only truth is perspective. To me, people are equal. I'll give you my respect instantly until you give me a reason not to. Surely, as Clyde said, I am not immune to social influences, but I try to maintain objectivity in my life, or as close to it as is possible. Hate is the spawn of religion, nationality, race, and social standing.

    Bah, the closed mind.

    Clyde, I wholly enjoyed your posts and agree with all that I have read thus far.
    "The best way to get answers is to just keep working the problem, recognizing when you are stalled, and directing the search pattern.....Donít just wait for The Right Thing to strike you Ė try everything you think might even be in the right direction, so you can collect clues about the nature of the problem."
    -John Carmack

  2. #122
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    Originally posted by neandrake
    The founders of the US based the structure of the government from their life-styles.

    I don't care about homo-sex/homo-marriage

    They should STFU about the benefits and $$$$ that the government set up though. They don't wanna respect our history, kiss my ass. Just like foreigners need to respect out laws.
    Seriously, what in the hell are you talking about and what does your stupid story have to do with anything?

  3. #123
    Registered User major_small's Avatar
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    Originally posted by neandrake
    I don't care about homo-sex/homo-marriage
    this alone was more than we needed... no need to go so completely off topic as you did...
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  4. #124
    Much older and wiser Fountain's Avatar
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    Alright, this ........es me off. Clyde goes through stating rationally as he believes, and you've got to be a dick and flame him?? You know why people aren't equal, because that is your perspective. The only truth is perspective. To me, people are equal. I'll give you my respect instantly until you give me a reason not to. Surely, as Clyde said, I am not immune to social influences, but I try to maintain objectivity in my life, or as close to it as is possible. Hate is the spawn of religion, nationality, race, and social standing.
    Think you will find I am saying it as it is.

    Closed mind? Me? Mine is the most 'open' as I know what is happening in the world and can say it as it is.

    Quote-'the only truth is perspective.'- enough said about me being a 'dick'

    You cannot say you are immune to certain influences like: Being American. You ARE american-it is not a disease. Be proud of it and not think it is a nasty 'tag' put upon you. Being proud of Nationality does not breed hate as you put it.
    Such is life.

  5. #125
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    ...and you are not happy to be bound to the group called 'English'?
    We've been here before.

    The answer to that question is yes and no. In a lot of ways i am archetypally English, and i do feel a sense of "national pride" BUT despite the fact that the feelings of national pride FEEL good. I don't like them, i don't like them because all they do is segregate ARBITRARY groups of people.

    It's "natural" for me to care more about "my" country that about the people in other countries, and that STINKS. I don't want to care more about "my" country than other countries.

    Why Fountain should i be 'closer' to you, than say Napkin or PJYelton? Just because we happen to have been born in the same arbirtrarely defined region of land? Bugger that.

    If i have to feel pride/shame for the actions of other people, i would much rather feel pride for all the successes of humanity and shame for all the failures.

    Why is it we constantly say "Not my problem?" People starving in Ethiopia? - Not my problem - not my country. People dieing of Aids in South America? - Not my problem - not my country.

    Country is an arbitrary grouping, its no less or more justifiable than grouping by skin or hair colour.

    No, you can go and stuff what our ENGLISH forefathers fought for and did for us
    No, you can go and stuff what our WHITE forefathers fought for and did for us.

    What is the difference? One arbitrary grouping swapped for another arbitrary grouping.

    All I see is people putting in crap-oh yes I agree everybody is equal - bollocks! People should be equal but they aint, and nobody especially Clyde is gonna change it.
    People are not currently treated as equals, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't continually fight for equality. It's never going to change?

    Really? And what do you based that statement on?

    Is it capable of change? Yes.
    Is it fundamentally impossible for a society in which equaltiy is prized to exist? No.
    Is it hard to get there? Yes.
    Does that mean we should just give up? No.

    When almost every non-caucasian in America was a slave, how many people would have said "its never gonna change"? Look past your own nose. It's like "I've been alive for 30-odd years and i haven't seen change therefore there will be none".

    The greatest levels of tolerance are seen in the most educated populations. We can fight racism, homophobia and intolerance in general with education. Sure it's hard work, sure there are huge problems to be faced but to throw up our hands and say nothing can be done i'll just continue thinking and doing what i've always thought and done is cowardly at best.

    Clyde I suppose your also a vegan who stays in tents on your holidays/up trees protesting.

    Face it being 'PC' is just a fantasy. Nobody really gives a stuff
    Fountain i'm not a vegan i've never been on a tree protest, and i'm not even remotely PC.
    Last edited by Clyde; 11-22-2003 at 06:11 AM.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  6. #126
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    Fweee!

    I'm almost certain I'll be flamed for this, but I think that most of the opposition against gay marriage stems from conservative Christians who are ignorant about what the Bible really says about homosexuality. It doesn't condemn homosexuality any more than it condemns heterosexuality. That is, both can be lustful and sinful, but both can also be good and wonderful, in the same respects.

    I wrote an essay/research/informative paper on it.

    http://www.fragville.com/daniel/

    OR

    http://www.fragville.com/daniel/Lost%20Love.doc

  7. #127
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    which Bible are YOU reading??

    edit: Your entire paper is based on what "wasn't said" or what some analysts seem to think. You seem to think that if something wasn't specifically spelled out that you can interpret it however you like it.
    Last edited by ober; 11-22-2003 at 08:47 AM.

  8. #128
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    Listen, $$$$ the bible. It was written by monks with an outdated set of morals.

    Get a new book.

  9. #129
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by ober5861
    which Bible are YOU reading??
    I don't know. Maybe the same bible you're reading that says pre-marital sex is A-OK, or maybe even the other one you must read that says "Only follow what you want, or what justifies what you think, mmmmk?"

    C'mon, obie. Justify how you can completely ignore parts of the bible, already. Stop tip-toeing around it. Please? It will make my day.

  10. #130
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    I never said what I do in my spare time was right. Point me to where I said it was. That isn't the topic we're talking about, is it?

    I'll be the first to admit that it's not right. I don't care. Sure, that makes me a hypocrite for saying that homosexuals are living in sin. I'll admit that too. I'm living in sin. Yes I am. I never never seperated the two. I simply pointed out that you are too. And then I disagreed with you getting married. What I said was never any deeper than that. It's my opinion. I'm allowed to have it.

  11. #131
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    I've got lots of light-weight clothes, so when we both go to hell together you don't have to buy a new clothes, k?



    edit: But then again, now I completely disagree with you and your girlfriend getting married. I mean, the bible says....

  12. #132
    carry on JaWiB's Avatar
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    Well, you can interpret the Bible how you want, but several passages do seem to talk about homosexuality, however what I have read about the subject suggests that they did not even have a word for homosexuality...But here's a passage I didn't see in your paper:
    "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
    -Romans 1:26-27 (NIV)
    Still, I can't say that it is definitive, since you could say it is used in the context of lust and premarital sex...

    Oh and its snowing outside (We don't get snow here often)
    "Think not but that I know these things; or think
    I know them not: not therefore am I short
    Of knowing what I ought."
    -John Milton, Paradise Regained (1671)

    "Work hard and it might happen."
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  13. #133
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    That is adressed in my paper......also, I put notes at the bottom that are rather helpful, imo. Like, look at all the stuff that looks like it condones slavery, and all the stuff that condones repressoin of women~ it's a lot more than the ones that are questionable about homosexuality

    Also, these aren't really no-name people. I put some of the bibliography information in the notes. Cahill is interesting...

    http://web.med.harvard.edu/healthcaucus/bg_cahill.html

    Also, i wrote a bit more...if you care:

    The Bible only condemns lustful, pederast homosexual relationships. We know that this is what Paul is referring to because, although he doesnít specify what heís referring to, other writers from this time do. They mention pederasty, and in some cases they mention sex slaves as well (although, it is important to note that the sex slaves were usually adolescents, so that could be referred to as pederasty, too.) While we know that the Bible does not condemn loving, monogamous homosexual relationships, we also know that it does not condone these relationships.. That isnít surprising, considering that there was no knowledge of such relationships while the Bible was written. Although the Bible doesnít give us specific answers for every problem, it does give us guidelines. The relationships that the Bible mentions Ė heterosexual ones Ė it does condemn in the same sense that it condemns homosexual ones, only when it is lustful. Otherwise, it praises them. Although I have heard people compare homosexuality to many things ranging from alcoholism to bestiality, I would like to offer a parallel that is much closer to anything else I can think of. Heterosexuality. Homosexuality and heterosexuality are not that much different. Yes, homosexual couples cannot reproduce, as many people have pointed out (as if we didnít know.) However, I donít think thatís really a bad thing. Thereís something called adoption. Homosexual couples, just like heterosexual ones, can raise children. Although I suspect that some might think of it as odd, do you think that the alternative is better? That is, do you think the child would be better off to stay in the orphanage?

    So, because of this, I donít really think that being in a non-reproductive romantic relationship is a bad thing. Actually, in a way itís better, because more children who need to be adopted can be. Although the couple raising the child wonít be passing on their genes, they will be passing on knowledge, which can last longer and have a much more beneficiary effect for the child and even for society. For example, Voltaire, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King Jr., and Churchill. What are they known for, their genes or their gift of knowledge and leadership for society?

    Therefore, I believe that homosexuality is not sinful, just like heterosexuality is not sinful. The other guideline that the Bible gives us is that love is not evil. Love is, rather, the opposite. To say that the love in homosexual relationships is evil, this goes completely against the guideline that the Bible sets up for us. It is not wrong to love someone.

    Grids for evaluating:

    This is a suggestion for something that helped me out for evaluating whether or not homosexuality is wrong, incase youíre still undecided. I suggest trying to check your grid (method) by applying other ideas to it as well. For example, if you use a method that finds homosexuality is sinful, but you can also derive that sexism or slavery is acceptable, thereís definitely something wrong with the grid youíre using.

    Example:

    Homosexuality is condemned, although it is questionable because it appears to be only speaking of lustful sex. However, the Bible never condones homosexuality. With questionable negative statements and a complete lack of positive statements, the negative wins hands down. Homosexuality is immoral.

    By the same method: Although the Bible makes several mentions of slavery, it is never condemned. Although itís questionable, the Bible appears to condone it. With a complete lack of negative statements, while containing questionable positive statements, the positive wins hands down. Slavery is moral.
    Last edited by Coon; 11-22-2003 at 03:02 PM.

  14. #134
    Banned frenchfry164's Avatar
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    Listen, $$$$ the bible. It was written by monks with an outdated set of morals.

    Get a new book.
    Agreed.

    Of course, I'm a little biased, since I am atheist.

  15. #135
    King of the Internet Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Now, I didn't bother reading every point made in this thread... but from what I did read most points against homosexuality were from Christians, pulling random phrases out of some book they don't even know is true to prove points. From a non-religious prespective...

    ... I still think it is wrong for a homosexual couple to get married. Some people say homosexuality is natural- I disagree. The intention of sex is to procreate. Even if a homosexual couple adopts a baby or gets a child from some other method...

    1) It would grow with a bias towards homosexuality. Now some will say this isn't a bad thing, but as I said before, I don't believe this is natural. This kind of stuff adds to the already abnormally-large homosexual population.

    2) It would grow up teased and unaccepted by it's peers. There are probably a few kind souls who would accept the kid... but where I live all you would get is jokes about your father being gay (both of them)

    3) Think how awkward it would be bringing a girlfriend home!

    The point is that homosexual marriages may not bother the homosexuals involved, but indirectly affect others... like their children.

    But anyway, just my two cents. Probably all it's worth. No malice or hate intended.
    Last edited by w00tsoft; 11-23-2003 at 12:15 PM.

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