View Poll Results: what do you think of the ruling

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  • I agree with it (pro same-sex marriages)

    28 50.91%
  • I disagree with it

    24 43.64%
  • not sure

    3 5.45%

same sex marriages

This is a discussion on same sex marriages within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Now, the thing is,It could be that being gay is a genetic defect, as an organism's sole goal in the ...

  1. #46
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Now, the thing is,It could be that being gay is a genetic defect, as an organism's sole goal in the long run is to produce enough offspring that it passes its genes along to the next generation of that organism's species.
    There are far far far too many homosexuals for homosexuality to be a "defect", if it does have some genetic basis those genes must be or have been selected for.

    This admitedly seems sometwhat counter intuitive homosexuality being an evolutionary dead end, but the current explanation is that in certain situations the same genes offer benefits namely greater social compatibility, so having some or all of the "gay genes" in certain cirumstances means you are more likely to pass on your genes.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  2. #47
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    >>But surely you ignore some bits of the bible, so, why not ignore this bit?

    Because I choose not to. Why should you care?

    Why do you care what I think at all and why does it upset you that I choose to not accept scientific data? Why does it bother you that I don't reason certain things out because it's "common sense"? Why does it bother you that I have beliefs and stand by them?

  3. #48
    Cheesy Poofs! PJYelton's Avatar
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    It matters because this view oppresses people and their rights. If I were to discriminate/oppress you because a book told me to, then you would be upset too.

    If you wanted to believe that the sky is purple because the Bible says so, then thats your choice. But when it affects other people, then that is when it is wrong.

  4. #49
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Because I choose not to. Why should you care?
    Why should i care? ...... Because your stance harms people. That's why i should care.

    Why do you care what I think at all and why does it upset you that I choose to not accept scientific data?
    Because it screws the world up, right now in Africa countless young women are being garroted, why? Tradition, why follow tradition, because that's what we do.

    The reasoning "because that's what we do" "because that's what i think" is behind a lot of the problems that plague our species. Why did it take so long for us to recognise that the colour of your skin does not mark you out as mentally or physically superior or inferior? Because they "believed what they believed"

    Advocates of Christian "science" avoid modern medicine, people suffer and die needlessly, why? Because people "believe what they believe". It's the same thing over and over and over.

    Why do i care? Because it ........es me off, so many problems so easily solveable if people removed their heads from their rectums.

    People's views MATTER Ober, yours mine, everyones.

    Why does it bother you that I have beliefs and stand by them?
    Because your beliefs are irrational and harm people. Do the "beliefs" of neo nazis bother you? Why?
    Last edited by Clyde; 11-19-2003 at 12:15 PM.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  5. #50
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    Originally posted by ZerOrDie
    Whats next they want to clone themselves and raise them as their kids?
    Yup. They're busy with that now.
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  6. #51
    'AlHamdulillah
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    Yes, yes I did. It is stated in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. An entire city was destroyed because of this very thing. If I'm ignorant because of my blind beliefs, then so be it. I don't really give 2 $$$$s about what you think or what evidence there is to support the contrary to my beliefs. There, happy?
    actually, that probably wasnt the case . there is a very good article on rotten.com(yes, i was surprised that there was to) that actually goes through the verses that supposedly are against homosexuality and puts them in the proper context. For one thing, the people of sodom and gomhorra(sp?) were not killed off because they were homosexuals(noteL i dont believe sodom and gomorah were destroyed by god, but still), but because they were sadists. They wanted to rape the "angels" not because they were gay, but because they wanted to humiliate the angels and Lot, thus, sadism was their sin, not homosexuality. also, those verses in leviticus should be taken in context, that is, "these things shall not be done during religious ceremony" context.


    There are far far far too many homosexuals for homosexuality to be a "defect",
    no, not really, I mean, 4% of african americans will suffer from glaucoma, but that doesnt mean it isnt a defect. The truth is, that most homosexual people until not that long ago, led "straight" lives, and had children, so they simply passed that defect down through the gene pool. The only difference is, it really doesnt hurt people at all, and in my experience, most gay people are alot easier to get along with socially than most of the "macho" players i know.

  7. #52
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    no, not really, I mean, 4% of african americans will suffer from glaucoma, but that doesnt mean it isnt a defect. The truth is, that most homosexual people until not that long ago, led "straight" lives, and had children, so they simply passed that defect down through the gene pool. The only difference is, it really doesnt hurt people at all, and in my experience, most gay people are alot easier to get along with socially than most of the "macho" players i know.
    Define "defect".
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

  8. #53
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    I disagree with it.

    Morality is not solely based on mental assent.

  9. #54
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by ober5861
    >>But surely you ignore some bits of the bible, so, why not ignore this bit?

    Because I choose not to. Why should you care?

    Why do you care what I think at all and why does it upset you that I choose to not accept scientific data? Why does it bother you that I don't reason certain things out because it's "common sense"? Why does it bother you that I have beliefs and stand by them?
    Oh Oberholzer, you idiot. What makes extramarital sex with your girlfriend any better than me ........ing my boyfriend?

    edit by cheez: fixed spelling

  10. #55
    Super Moderator VirtualAce's Avatar
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    Oh Oberhauzer, you idiot. What makes extramarital sex with your girlfriend any better than me $$$$ing my boyfriend?

    Good point, even though I disagree with your viewpoint. You did point out a fallacy in his logic.

  11. #56
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    I wanted to stay out of this debate since I knew religion would spark yet another 300 post thread, however, since it has already happened, I guess I will put in my 2 cents.

    If you wanted to believe that the sky is purple because the Bible says so, then thats your choice. But when it affects other people, then that is when it is wrong.
    The fact is, the Bible does not say the sky is purple, nor does ANY canonized scripture by any religion that I know of.

    I have studied the Bible (and Book of Mormon, since I am a Mormon) all of my life, and I know it to only contain those things which are true and good for the whole of mankind.

    If you find something in the Bible that is contrary to that, then you are not understanding it correctly. That might be a little blunt, so I will put forth this: Present any thing in the Bible you think is contrary to what is good and right, and also present your interpretation of it. Present to me what you think about it. I will then present to you my interpretation of it and my thoughts about it.

    The Bible is not mystery people. Nor is God. God acts in a logical sense. He never acts irrationally. He follows a pattern. Some find him hard to understand, but contrary to that He is not.

    Now, I feel I am straying from the topic a little bit, so I will come back to the topic of gay marriage.

    Although "natural" is the word being used by many people in this thread, I am not going to define anything by that word. Natural has a different connotation and a different meaning for every person on the Earth. What is natural to someone is strange to someone else. Therefore it is too ambiguous and does not suffice for this thread. I suggest the term be abandoned by those trying to use it for the purposes of arguing their point in this thread, because it will get them nowhere.

    Rather, I will present my views as such:

    Man and woman have the power to procreate, one of the greatest powers humankind has the ability to do.

    We do this through reproduction methods of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman, obviously.

    From a religious standpoint, these reproduction methods are and were to be used at all times in a responsible manner, respecting the power that is in them.

    Therefore, gay and lesbian marriages, from a religious standpoint, violate that "law" (if that is the correct term). They trample over everything respectful and responsible about love and procreation.

    Rather, gay and lesbian marriages operate more along the lines of lust, never love. Relationships operating along these lines will never bring true happiness, no matter what people think.

    Furthermore, think about your families people. Gay and lesbian relationships completely and utterly defy the most basic unit of society: the Family.

    And without the family, where would our society be today? I do not even want to THINK of where our society would be if it was not for the family.

    The family is the most sacred, solemn, and wholesome institution we have in this world. In the home is where principles and values are taught. In the family is where happiness lies.

    Gay and lesbian marriages, no matter what one thinks, will not satisfy the family relationship. You can argue with whatever statistics you want, but the fact is: Gay and lesbian relationships are NO substitute for the family. They never have been. They are not now. They never will be.

    And I think we all know that without the family society would crumble. I shudder to think of the world without the family.

    Those are my thoughts. Those are my opinions. Those are my beliefs. Take what you will. Argue if you want.

    [edit]

    Oh Oberhauzer, you idiot. What makes extramarital sex with your girlfriend any better than me $$$$ing my boyfriend?
    nothing. there is fallacy of logic there. they are both abominations in my opinion. Sex should only be had inside the bonds of marriage. Once again it goes back to the responsibility I was talking about earlier.

    [/edit]
    Last edited by DavidP; 11-19-2003 at 05:48 PM.
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  12. #57
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    >>Man and woman have the power to procreate, one of the greatest powers humankind has the ability to do.

    I don't see why everyone thinks it's so special. Even cells can reproduce. Flowers, fish, birds, lions...they can all procreate.

    >>Therefore, gay and lesbian marriages, from a religious standpoint, violate that "law" (if that is the correct term). They trample over everything respectful and responsible about love and procreation.<<

    From a religious standpoint, yes. But we're talking from a legislative standpoint, and that doesn't cut it.

    >>Rather, gay and lesbian marriages operate more along the lines of lust, never love. Relationships operating along these lines will never bring true happiness, no matter what people think.<<

    Define love. I'd argue you'd have to be an idiot to think that two men can't fall in love and find true happiness with eachother.

    >>Furthermore, think about your families people. Gay and lesbian relationships completely and utterly defy the most basic unit of society: the Family.<<

    The family unit is overrated. Sure, the traditional family unit has served us fine in the past, but this is the present. We can modify the family unit to single mothers and single fathers, as well as two fathers or two mothers.

    >>Gay and lesbian marriages, no matter what one thinks, will not satisfy the family relationship. You can argue with whatever statistics you want, but the fact is: Gay and lesbian relationships are NO substitute for the family. They never have been. They are not now. They never will be.<<

    Sure they are.



    >>nothing. there is fallacy of logic there. they are both abominations in my opinion. Sex should only be had inside the bonds of marriage. Once again it goes back to the responsibility I was talking about earlier.<<

    Good. If I'm an abomination, at least I can drag Ober's lusty ass down with me.

    edit:

    >>We do this through reproduction methods of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman, obviously.

    You know, I was watching this documentary the other day...there's this specific type of fish, where in the absense of a male, a female can turn into a male within a matter of weeks to reproduce with the other females. I thought it was interesting, and it seemed relevant for some reason.

  13. #58
    Much older and wiser Fountain's Avatar
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    >>You know, I was watching this documentary the other day...there's this specific type of fish, where in the absense of a male, a female can turn into a male within a matter of weeks to reproduce with the other females. I thought it was interesting, and it seemed relevant for some reason.<<

    Thats funny.

    I think after reading all the posts that it boils down to one thing. If the majority of people think something is right/wrong-then it is.

    No exceptions. Clyde, I am sure you will flame me blah blah, probably mention some poor Palestinian gay homeless bloke that you think is oppressed, but look-you have to change the mind of the majority or no law CAN be passed.

    If what the 'pro' people have said(and they are good arguments) is true why is it not legal to marry?


    Edit-ooops. I BTW have not stated which side of the fence I am on-So no flaming me. Just find it helps to simplify things.
    Such is life.

  14. #59
    Registered User Scourfish's Avatar
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    as long as it doesn't harm anybody else (and the only thing it is harming is the $$$$-headed fundamentalism of $$$$$$$s like micheal savage anyway, which is nothing more than religious conviction) then let em go ahead
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  15. #60
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fountain
    I think after reading all the posts that it boils down to one thing. If the majority of people think something is right/wrong-then it is.
    Maybe legally, but not ethically. 200 years ago a majority of the people in the world thought that slavery was A-OK, but now we realize that that isn't right.

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