genocide law is history

This is a discussion on genocide law is history within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; For some background on this matter click here And we also had some thread about this some time ago overhere ...

  1. #1
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    genocide law is history

    For some background on this matter click here
    And we also had some thread about this some time ago
    overhere

    You might already heard it on the news, and you might saw the death of this law coming.
    But for me its a shock, the new government (just formed) is in charge one day and they immediatley banish this law.
    The only good reason i can come up with is that the law had to be changed and to be improved to meet the demands of the US gov./president, but that would cost a lot of money and would take a huge amount of time.
    So i think they just said we are having problems with it (US president, Collin Powell, Sharon etc) so lets get rid of it.

    Maybe this law has only been used once or twicee i dont care, now its like saying go ahead and commit genocide, then these people flee to some other country and they are safe and cant be prosecuted....
    Its like the thing with Sharon he committed or was involved in genocide back in the 80's, by using this law Belgium could prosecute him whenever he entered Belgium territory, now this is a fantasy, Sharon can come over to Belgium and do whatever he wants wherever he wants because he has diplomatic immunity....

    Amnesty International (AI) already responded to this matter and say that this was a bad thing to do from the Belgian government.
    Comment of AI about this law concecrning Sharon can be found here .

    As i said in the beginning of this post we already had a thread about this once, then i asked what you thought about this law that was going to be banished.
    Now that the law doesnt exist anymore, you will probably have other opinions or maybe not but i just want to know what you think of it.

    For those of you that dont know the meaning of genocide heres what dictionary.com came up with:
    gen·o·cide :The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
    I'm looking forward to your reactions.
    PS: Do not turn this in any way into a flame ware or I will pm a mod asking to close the thread.

    Ganglylamb.
    Last edited by GanglyLamb; 07-14-2003 at 05:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    I can give you a good reason why the law was replealed. It allowed citizens of Belgium to sue people in other countries.

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    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    It allowed citizens of Belgium to sue people in other countries.
    Not exactly, before you can sue someone with that law there has to be evidence (and if not the government investigates it), that the person in question did commit genocide or was involved with it.

    ::fictif thinking::
    Its not like i say : "I sue ygfperson because he has been active in a movement that sprays graffiti all over town."
    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Well I'm off coz im feeling not very well (ive been taking Lariam-- against malaria, and i just drunk some alcohol, wich appears to be having strange side-effects)

    Laterz,

    Gangylamb.

  4. #4
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    Well, it definitely had its teeth removed.
    I'd say its good in principle. The problem is that it is one country's law, and suffers from (at least perceived) subjectivity in who it targets. A law like that would more properly belong in the UN.
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  5. #5
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    Are you taking Lariam as a precautionary measure against Malaria?

    This is bad. Lariam, (Meflaquin), is a powerful drug that should only really be used for treating people with a confirmed, (blood films), diagnosis. It has numerous serious side effects. I personally know a Swiss girl who took prophylactic Lariam when we were travelling together in Malawi - she had vision problems, which persisted for some 10 years after returning. I find it incredible that anyone going into an area for a year would be prescribed prophylactic Meflaquin. You should search the web for more information about this - this could really affect your health.

    There is also the problem of exposing the parasites to the treatment drugs. By routinely dosing people in affected areas with the drugs used to cure it, the resistant strains to the drug develop in that area. Now when people become infected, the quality drugs used to fight it no longer work. This is a particular problem for the locals, as Westerners tend to use the better drugs as prophylactics, and leave the local people with nothing to fight the symptoms with.

    I would recomend you talk to whoever gave you the Lariam and ask why daily Palludrine and weekly Chloroquin cannot be used, and even then, not for more than say 3 months.
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  6. #6
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    And drinking while on prescription meds is usually a pretty stupid idea.

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    Banned maes's Avatar
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    yes, listen to GC he's been there and look how that turned out, poor guy
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    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    I can give you a good reason why the law was replealed. It allowed citizens of Belgium to sue people in other countries.
    I can give you a reason why it's a shame this law was retracted:

    Not killing masses of people should be law in all countries, so it shouldn't exactly matter where you go to court. If someone is cracking copyrighted material in a country where it isn't even illegal, he can be arrested and prosecuted upon entering another country where this law exists ( example: USA ). If someone is slaugthering thousands of people, being illegal probably everywhere in the world, he cannot be arrested and prosecuted in another country ( mostly by the wish of the US ). WTF ? How much of a hypocrite can a nationstate be ? This law wasn't retracted because it's unjust or problematic. It's a good law, prosecuting people for commiting genocide. It was retracted, because it didn't fit the US' view of the world. The big bully is stomping around again. Every state tries to protect it's citizens, but only the US manages to show such a lack of diplomacy.
    hth
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  9. #9
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    :ff-topic::
    adrianxw i really appreciate it that you are concerned about me but the one that prescribed me those drugs was someone from the international tropical institute.... I know what the side-effects are: depression, bad vision,sleepless nights, cardiac arrests, blood circulation problems, dizzyness,paranoia, blurry sight, cramps,fever, headache etc ive got a list of all the side effects... But when it is advised by someone who is a real pro in this field i just follow the advice they give me.

    I take it for prevention, although the doctor said that when i have a malaria attack i should take 3 of these pills a day (normally only 1 is allowed each week). And then you get all the side-effects but you just dont know wether its the malaria or the Lariam (wich is indeed that mefloquin thigie a pill of 250 mg) :s .

    Oh and i'm feeling much better now the only thing i have is that i look at something and then it appears like there are some milliseconds being cut out its really strange and i just cant explain...

    :n-topic::
    Well i still cant come up with another decent reason why they abolished this law... i guess it was too much juristic and money-involved work to improve the law in total.
    With improving the law i think about making the law so that the US wouldnt complain about it... (however that would make the US position of the world visible again, it would show that the US could do a lil bit more then the rest, wich is understandable if you know some history).
    Last edited by GanglyLamb; 07-15-2003 at 05:52 AM.

  10. #10
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GanglyLamb
    Not exactly, before you can sue someone with that law there has to be evidence (and if not the government investigates it), that the person in question did commit genocide or was involved with it.

    ::fictif thinking::
    Its not like i say : "I sue ygfperson because he has been active in a movement that sprays graffiti all over town."
    ::::::::::::::::::::
    You're avoiding my point. A person in one country should not be able to sue a person in another country for a crime which was not committed in the first country. If someone in the United States did commit genocide, another person in the US would have jurisdiction to sue him. (Unless one of the victims were a foreigner.)

    Not killing masses of people should be law in all countries, so it shouldn't exactly matter where you go to court.
    I'm assuming the Not was a typo. Killing is illegal in pretty much all countries. (Unless you're the dictator... in which case you exempt yourself.)

    If someone is cracking copyrighted material in a country where it isn't even illegal, he can be arrested and prosecuted upon entering another country where this law exists ( example: USA ).
    This is because of international laws against copyright infringement. If you want genocide illegal everywhere, get countries to come together to ban it jointly.

    The other more practical reason why this law was removed was because people with no connection with genocide were being sued (President Bush, Rumsfield).

  11. #11
    and the Hat of Clumsiness GanglyLamb's Avatar
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    connection with genocide were being sued (President Bush, Rumsfield).
    They were held responsible for killing about 500 ppl that were in a supposed military underground facility ( happened in Iraq), and then some other things that happened to ppl during the First Gulf war...
    Yeah i know, the US government probably didnt realised that there were civilians in this complex but still. If intelligence is wrong you are you gonna blame then... Its difficult to say you are responsible for this action when you are somewhere in a hierarchy (spelling ??).

  12. #12
    Banned maes's Avatar
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    You're avoiding my point. A person in one country should not be able to sue a person in another country for a crime which was not committed in the first country. If someone in the United States did commit genocide, another person in the US would have jurisdiction to sue him. (Unless one of the victims were a foreigner.)
    That's where I disagree. The first time the law was used (to my knowledge) was in a trial against 4 people from Rwanda. they would have never been trailed in there own country. So people from Rwanda sued them in Belgium and they were convicted. It's not because you can't be trailed in your own country, that you should get away with it. But the law backfired a bit and was abused by people.


    This is because of international laws against copyright infringement. If you want genocide illegal everywhere, get countries to come together to ban it jointly.
    They did: The international war tribunal in Den Haag. But the US won't be part of that, why?
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  13. #13
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by maes
    They did: The international war tribunal in Den Haag. But the US won't be part of that, why?
    I don't know anything about that tribunal, so I can't really argue with you. But I do think the US has ignored potentially beneficial international efforts for stupid reasons. (Kyoto, child soldiers)

  14. #14
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    This is because of international laws against copyright infringement. If you want genocide illegal everywhere, get countries to come together to ban it jointly.
    I'm pretty sure there is an international law to prevent genocide. If there isn't, we should create one instead of bringing down a law that tries to achieve something.
    hth
    -nv

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    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  15. #15
    Banned maes's Avatar
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    >>I don't know anything about that tribunal, so I can't really argue with you.
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...keeping.court/
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