Chemtrails?

This is a discussion on Chemtrails? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >>The guy has freaking althemiesers Sorry, I forget most of you are too young to remember these things happening. Reagan ...

  1. #61
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    >>The guy has freaking althemiesers

    Sorry, I forget most of you are too young to remember these things happening.

    Reagan did not have the symptoms of WHILE he was president (until 1988). His classic 'I can't remember" was in the Tower Report 1987. Both Bush snr (vice Pres) and Reagan claimed to have no knowledge of selling arms to Iran for hostages and aiding the contras, financed by drug running into the US, in Nicaragua (both covert ops by the NSA).

    Col. Oliver North who took the fall (and others) claimed they did.

    The someone I mentioned with a diary was Caspar Weinberger.

    This is a summary
    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0825447.html
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
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  2. #62
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    Whatever, I'm wrong then. A high official lied, that's something new.

    I acknowledge that our country does some stupid stuff. But, you are making it seem that we're an evil empire and are the only ones who do this. Although it doesn't make our actions any better, this crap happens in everyone's country.

  3. #63
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    "Although it doesn't make our actions any better, this crap happens in everyone's country."

    I tend to agree. I think the US is targetted because

    a) Its more powerfull, hence its actions tend to be more significant

    and

    b) Because its percieved by alot of non-US people that many if not most US citizens are shrouded in a thick cloak of nationalistic fog which blinds them from ever seeing that their country is ever or has ever been in the wrong. (*cough* Mart_man, OSR, *cough*)

    - Mistakes must first be recognised before they can be addressed.

  4. #64
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    I acknowledge that our country does some stupid stuff. But, you are making it seem that we're an evil empire and are the only ones who do this. Although it doesn't make our actions any better, this crap happens in everyone's country.
    this scares me. im agreeing with golfinguy4, must be becuase thats basicly what i said a couple times in the other thread.

    Clyde, part b, hmmm. one or two mistakes out of a couple billion. i hate the when in doubt blame america crap.

    the mistakes any one can ever says are: slavery - we didnt start it, we didnt created, it was done to more than one group to with less whining, the camps - we went overboard here, we wanted to secure the country and did but screw some japanese, we should of done a better job but the gov didnt send any one to a concentration camp or steel any houses. hell, half the time were blowing our money away to any country asking for it. look at all the money we give to every one. even our enemys in war get paid off. no alot of countries dont even have militaries, if something happens they going to call us, like they always have. we screw up a COUPLE of times, but find a country that has done a better job. stop whining.

  5. #65
    Pursuing knowledge confuted's Avatar
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    I think that Mauritius has done a better job. You haven't heard of that country, have you? Must be because they aren't making any international blunders. Their literacy rate is a bit low, but they have people from major religions which are generally in conflict living together peacefully. Maybe we should move there.

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/mp.html
    Away.

  6. #66
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    funny how that info came from america, on a american medium.

  7. #67
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    funny how it was just one of the links Google gave me. I didn't say that America is always wrong - and there is plenty of information that you can use to verify the CIA factbook. Look here for some of it.
    Away.

  8. #68
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    Well, you've forced me to read that damned Riegle Report, n.

    The Report seems (I have not finished readfing it) to say that
    Iraq was very capable of building its own WMD without any
    inconceivable help from the U.S. as you claim.

    The Introduction claims there was a DoD coverup of the
    Iraqi use of chemical agents during the first Gulf War. The
    DoD denied that U.S. troops were exposed to chemical agents
    and the Riegle Report strongly contradicts this claim.

    From, Chapter 1. Iraqi Chemical and Biological Warfare Capability:

    "Iraq was believed to have been manufacturing mustard gas at a production facility in Samarra since the early 1980s. It also began an extensive program to produce nerve agent precursor chemicals, taking advantage of its own natural resources. Phosphate mines/industries are at Akashat, Al Qaim, and Rutbah. The Iraqi Al Fallujah gas warfare complex was believed to be capable of producing up to 1,000 tons per month of Sarin, as well as the nerve agent VX. In addition, with the assistance of foreign firms, Iraq developed the capability to experiment with hydrogen cyanide, cyanogen chloride, and lewisite. By the start of the Gulf War, Iraqi forces had developed chemical delivery capabilities for rifle grenades, 81mm mortars, 152mm, 130mm, and 122mm artillery rounds; bombs; 90mm air-to-ground rockets; 216 kilogram FROG and 555 kilogram SCUD warheads; and possibly land mines and cruise missiles."

    "British troops also discovered Iraqi chemical mines on the Gulf battlefield, according to Gannett News Service. A British official (not further identified) said the incident was reported to Prime Minister John Major's war cabinet; no details were given."


    "In April 1993, weapons inspectors from the United Nations charged with locating all of Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons by U.N. Resolution 687, confirmed that in Muthanna, 65 miles northwest of Baghdad, Iraq manufactured a form of mustard gas as well as Sarin and Tabun, both nerve agents. "

    "U.N. inspectors have concluded that the Muthanna plant was capable of producing two tons of Sarin and five tons of mustard gas daily. The plant was also capable of manufacturing VX, a nerve gas and one of the most toxic chemicals ever produced."

    "There is substantial evidence to suggest that in the use of chemical weapons, as in other military areas, the Iraqi military adhered, at least in part, to Soviet military doctrine. Soviet military doctrine suggested that chemical warfare should be conducted with mixed agents. "
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  9. #69
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    More from your hallowed Riegle Report:


    Related Chemical Agent Information


    Committee staff has learned that Iraq may have acquired any one of a number of the Soviet binary novachok ("newcomer") series of chemical warfare agent compounds or information relevant to the development of those compounds. This series of chemical warfare agents reportedly contains both lethal and debilitating agents. According to a confidential Committee source, if the Iraqis had obtained samples of these compounds they could be easily analyzed and produced with readily available materials. Several of these compounds are described as agents that even in microdoses can have long lasting effects. These agents are described as inducing myosis, vomiting, memory loss, involuntary motions and internal organ dysfunction. Many of these materials are also described as having mutagenic effects. These materials are, according to the source, stored in the lipids (body fats) and have no known antidotes. In addition, according to the Committee source, the Soviets were believed to have conducted research in a number of dioxin-based chemical warfare agents, and on at least one agent that could be used to contaminate drinking water supplies. Committee staff is conducting further inquiries to determine if Iraq may have had access to any of these compounds.

    So far, your claim of Iraq's having help with its WMD program are
    half true. You just had te wrong country tabbed as helping them.

    Edit:

    Ok the report is done and read. Yes, there is a section in the report which contains what appears to be a long list of
    toxic agents that were exported from the U.S. to Iraq prior to
    the first Gulf War. The report gives no information on the amount
    of agents shipped to Iraq, nor does it list the exporting companies
    or the length of time the exports continued , nor when the exports began or ended. These exports were not the main focus
    of the Riegle Report.

    The problem one has with journalism like yours, novacain, is its
    blatant one-sidedness. You are so quick to point out American
    missteps wherever they occur, but you conveniently forget to
    balance your "facts" with the counterweight of a greater Russian
    involvment with the Iraki chemical weapons developers and the
    Iraqui government's own capabilities and culpabilities in produceing their own weapons of mass destruction. You slant your writing to make it appear that the U.S. did everything it could to help Iraq develop chemical weapons and then stupidly
    went to war against them. It just doesn't ring true for my ears, and until I hear more convincing music than what you are playing,
    I can't begin to change my opinion that what you write are lies
    written for your own personal reasons, whatever they may be.
    Last edited by rick barclay; 06-14-2003 at 01:42 AM.
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  10. #70
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    Originally posted by blackrat364
    I think that Mauritius has done a better job. You haven't heard of that country, have you? Must be because they aren't making any international blunders. Their literacy rate is a bit low, but they have people from major religions which are generally in conflict living together peacefully. Maybe we should move there.

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/mp.html
    No offense to Mauritius as I actually know someone from there, but, you can't compare a 2030 sq. km set of islands to the US. In larger, more powerful, more successful countries, one makes a lot more enemies, has a lot more people of different beliefs together, and a lot more people to protect. Also, since there are more people, there are more wackos as well who are going to do stupid stuff and give your country a bad name.

  11. #71
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    I know that the USSR, China, France, Germany, UK and US all supplied arms of some form to Iraq in the 1980’s.
    These nations were falling over one another to gain access to Iraq’s newly nationalized oil and ensure that Iraq did not lose the Iraq v Iran war. This was important to stop the fundamentalist Moslem revolution spreading from Iran (to protect Western interests in the area and Israel).
    At this point they all knew what Sadam was doing with the WMD they were supplying him with (using them on Iranians and Iraqi Kurds). The US even supplied Sadam with the antidote (Atropine) even though no other power in the region had chemical weapons.

    >> written for your own personal reasons, whatever they may be.<<
    My whole point is to try and stop this happening again. The only country powerful enough to do this is the US but its citizens are unaware of their own countries involvement and blame the problem on others. Only by being aware that a problem exists can it be dealt with and resolved.

    >>These exports were not the main focus of the Riegle Report.<<
    No the main focus of the Riegle report was that the US servicemen were exposed to WMD during Desert Storm and this was covered up by the US government (denying servicemen treatment). Or do you have a different ‘take’ on what the Riegle Report was about?

    >>Yes, there is a section in the report which contains what appears to be a long list of toxic agents that were exported from the U.S.
    771 separate exports of chemical and biological precursors were identified.
    >>The report gives no information on the amount of agents shipped to Iraq, nor does it list the exporting companies or the length of time the exports continued , nor when the exports began or ended.
    “Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning "disease producing"), toxigenic (meaning "poisonous"), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Records prior to 1985 were not available, according to the supplier.” Riegle Report
    Re-read my post with the list on it, it includes dates and amounts. (I will not repeat the post).

    Here is a time frame from 1980.
    Note this section
    “· Analysts recognized that "civilian" helicopters can be weaponized in a matter of hours and selling a civilian kit can be a way of giving military aid under the guise of civilian assistance. Shortly after removing Iraq from the terrorism sponsorship list, the Reagan administration approved the sale of 60 Hughes helicopters. Later, and despite some objections from the National Security Council (NSC), the Secretaries of Commerce and State (George Baldridge and George Shultz) lobbied the NSC advisor into agreeing to the sale to Iraq of 10 Bell helicopters, officially for crop spraying. See "1988" for note on Iraq using U.S. Helicopters to spray Kurds with chemical weapons.”
    http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/usiraq80s90s.html


    Here is a short list of those items and the companies that exported them from the US
    http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs...992/10-27.html

    Here are some more reports including many sales of US aircraft inc. helicopters (as we were discussing, over US$65 million worth)
    http://www.wisconsinproject.org/coun...LicenseMD.html

    These are from the Wisconsin Uni’s project to stop the proliferation of WMD.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

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