Chemtrails?

This is a discussion on Chemtrails? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by minesweeper What's a pinko? The Communist nations were known as red back during the Cold War. Hence, ...

  1. #46
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    Originally posted by minesweeper
    What's a pinko?
    The Communist nations were known as red back during the Cold War. Hence, the people who were "kinda" communist but not totally communist were pink, instead of totally red. A person who is pink is a pinko.

  2. #47
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    BTW, about what novacain said, damn. I'm an American and if that really happened, it has definately been quite hush hush.

    I am not denying it though as I have no evidence either way. However, I don't know how reliable a sketchy website such as that is.

  3. #48
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    Any place with a link to the 'Office of Human Radiation Experiments' has to be dodgy........What does it say about a country that needs an Office of Human Radiation Experiments?


    Look at the reports they are trying to sell (as they are not available on the web, mostly)

    http://www.healthnewsnet.com/reports.html

    Careful, some may scare you...........like

    THE RIEGLE REPORT on the WMD the US sold to Sadam and D Rumsfelt's grudging confession that he had been the one to arrange the sales.



    Just in case you don't know. You don't have to be a US citizen to fight in the US armed forces. Nor does active service get you a citizenship, postmortem or otherwise..........
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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  4. #49
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    Originally posted by novacain

    Look at the reports they are trying to sell (as they are not available on the web, mostly)

    http://www.healthnewsnet.com/reports.html

    Exactly, sell! They make money off of stories like these. This website isn't exactly as credible as cnn.com or something like that.

  5. #50
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    >.Exactly, sell!

    My understanding is you have to pay a fee to get these reports under the 'freedom of information act'.

    My point was they are copies of declassified government reports. The CIA ones have markers with "<lines deleted>" throughout them.

    I don't consider CNN an unbiased or reliable source either though. CNN's business is to sell you products, not inform you. Its not that CNN misrepresents the facts, it just ignores some.

    For example;
    Find on CNN who in the US is accusing Australians of ripping off the US taxpayer and supporting Sadam.
    Then try and find out why.
    The secret is in Canadian rail cars......

    You may need the magic word.......monsanto
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  6. #51
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    >>The secret is in Canadian rail cars......
    Now im interested. But Im too lazy to go research, do you have any links handy?
    "What are you after - the vague post of the week award?" - Salem
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  7. #52
    Pursuing knowledge confuted's Avatar
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    As far as CNN goes -
    One day a few months ago, before the war, I was reading along in the Jerusalem Post (www.jpost.com, free registration necessary). There was an article mentioning that Germany stated that they have knowledge that Iraq had smallpox (at the time of the article). That surprised me, because I had just read all the "important" stories on CNN and hadn't seen it. I went back to CNN and ran a search. I read every article with the word "smallpox" in it within as long as the search goes back...quite some time; I read 40 articles or so. Jerusalem Post had the story - CNN had no mention. Jerusalem Post - Israel. CNN - USA, had to support the war, even at the cost of journalistic integrity? You be the judge.
    Away.

  8. #53
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    >>CNN - USA, had to support the war, even at the cost of journalistic integrity? You be the judge.

    Prahaps they did not want to state the reason they knew Iraq had smallpox.

    The Riegle report (a US senate inquiry).

    Where the US admin admitted it sold Iraq things like smallpox, sarin, botulism, anthrax and the helecopters to spray the stuff.
    The US continued to sell these items to Sadam even AFTER he had used them on his own people.

    >>The secret is in Canadian rail cars......
    >>Now im interested.

    Nothing given too easily is valued highly.............(the people who own the media and Monsanto do not want you to know the full reasons, so it is not in one place)

    What Canadian group has the US taken to the WTO citing unfair competion (based, partially, on the use of govenment funded rail cars) and of having a monopoly?

    Why such a big fuss over a few rail cars?

    It comes down to what Monsanto makes.

    http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...5E1702,00.html
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  9. #54
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Blackrat, why do you even bother reading Novacain's lies and
    ridiculous claims?

    Iraq's use of chemical weapons is very, very well documented and
    easily searchable on the Web. Iraq doesn't even have helicopters
    for one thing. The guy's a lying moron. Always has been and always will be until the day he leaves here (hopefully and mecifully
    soon). This is the same nitwit who swears to all gullible enough
    to listen that the 9-11 attack on the Pentagon didn't happen, or was staged by the Pentagon to appear as if it did happen.
    Last edited by rick barclay; 06-11-2003 at 04:50 AM.
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  10. #55
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    actually, we gave the Iraqis the biological seedstock for bio weapons during the iraqi-irani war, knowing that is was going to be used in Cities.Not to mention VP dick cheney made over 200 million dollars for selling oil equipment right before the embargo on trade was enacted.

    quite frankly, each and every country does this, and each and every one holds it hush hush. The idea one country is better than every other one is an ignorant idea.

  11. #56
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    I'm sorry Rick but these are not lies, according the US government.

    Is this extract from the US senate report (aka the Riegle Report) a lie?

    " Other ways in which biological materials could have been weaponized include the use of Iraqi 250 and 500lb bombs, aerial rockets, unmanned aerial vehicles, FAW ground-to-ground missiles, helicopters and Iraqi aircraft. The Committee has received several reports of Iraqi helicopters penetrating Saudi airspace during the war by flying at low levels through the wadis and of Iraqi aircraft penetrating the area over the northern Persian Gulf."

    http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/r_1_2.html#exports

    \\NOTE : This is a copy of the actual US senate report.

    Is the CIA lying here Rick?

    "Location:Khan Bani Saad – Aug 1988

    Agent:Bacillus subtilis

    Munition: aerosol generator – Mi-2 helicopter with modified agricultural spray equipment"

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...ct_2002.htm#05

    Check the dates, Rick. GWB's daddy did not care about Sadam getting this stuff.

    Halabja-March 1988
    Iraq gases Kurdish civilian village. 5,000 Men, women and children killed.

    Just one example of the stuff the US sent Sadam.
    "Date : September 29, 1988
    Sent To : Ministry of Trade
    Materials Shipped:

    1. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 240)
    Batch # 05-14-63 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    2. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 938)
    Batch # 1963 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    3. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 3629)
    Batch # 10-23-85 (3 each)

    4. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 8009)
    Batch # 03-30-84 (3 each)

    5. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 8705)
    Batch # 06-27-62 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    6. Brucella abortus (ATCC 9014)
    Batch # 05-11-66 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    7. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 10388)
    Batch # 06-01-73 (3 each)

    8. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 11966)
    Batch #05-05-70 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    9. Clostridium botulinum Type A
    Batch # 07-86 (3 each)
    Class III pathogen

    10. Bacillus cereus (ATCC 33018)
    Batch # 04-83 (3 each)

    11. Bacillus ceres (ATCC 33019)
    Batch # 03-88 (3 each)"

    Clostridium perfringens :: a highly toxic bateria which causes gas gangrene

    Bacillus anthracis :: Anthrax

    Clostridium botulinum Type A :: A bacterial source of botulinum toxin, which causes vomiting, constipation, thirst, general weakness, headache, fever, dizziness, double vision, dilation of the pupils and paralysis of the muscles involving swallowing. It is often fatal.



    Which bit can you not accept Rick?
    That the pure US does this kind of thing?
    Or that it lies to its citizens about it?
    Or that the US gets paid to help Sadam kill innocents?


    >>This is the same nitwit who swears to all gullible enough to listen that the 9-11 attack on the Pentagon didn't happen, or was staged by the Pentagon to appear as if it did happen.<<

    Never once have I said this.
    If I have said it (and YOU have read it) it is on this site.

    So provide a link to the thread or STFU!

    How I despair for places where patriotism blinds a countries citizens to reality.

    >>Not to mention VP dick cheney made over 200 million dollars for selling oil equipment right before the embargo on trade was enacted.<<

    Guess what company got the Iraq Oil contract this time without a tender process?

    Why did the US give the company, WorldCom, still in the courts for the worlds biggest accounting scandal (and no experience in mobile phones) the mobile contract in Iraq?

    As to the wheat issue.
    Monsanto want to introduce GM wheat. It can't because consumers don't want to use this GM grain. If Canada does not change its 'free rail cars to Canadian wheat farmers' then the GM grain will be easily tracked and separated. Best way to get this achieved, destroy the Canadian grain marketing coop (as it is a monopoly) thru the WTO.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  12. #57
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    This report also claims to be of CIA origin.Should we believe this one, or yours? I misread the first reading; it appears the rackis do ordid have helicopters for delivery. But they weren't U.S. They were Russian Mi 8's. All the weaponry used by the Irakis was Russian.

    The Pentqagon thing wasn't posted by you but Minesweeper.
    Sorry. It just sounded like you.




    File: 970613_092596_ui_txt_0001.txt

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Subject: IRAQI CHEMICAL WARFARE DATA



    Overview:
    - Iraq has an extremely sophisticated CW production capbility.
    - Iraq has used CW on Kurds & Iranians with little reservatlon.
    - Use approval resides with Hussein.
    - Production under State Establishment for Pesticide Production
    Iraqi Chemical Weapons:
    - Iraqi Blister: Mustard, Dusty-Mustard; poss. lewisite.
    * (U) Mustard: persistent, oily liquid. Normally takes 4-6
    hours for tissue corruption, unless droplets are inhaled.
    Persistence is 32-36 hours.
    Dusty-Mustard: solid particulates impregnated with mustard
    agent. Forms dust cloud upon release. Minute particulates are
    esaily inhaled and corrupt lung tissue in 10-15 minutes. Can
    also get onto skin and become active via sweat, etc.
    [b.1. sec. 1.5.(a)] Is not a true
    perssitent agent, as a breeze/wind can reduce residual effect
    through dispersal. Also, it adheres to larger partlcles once
    settled, thus it is difficult to become airborne a second time
    for inhalation. Skin contact & activation, however, is still
    possible in areas of concentration.
    * (U) Lewisite: like mustard, except faster acting.
    Persistence is 24 hours to one week.

    - Iraqi Nerve: Sarin, Tuban; possibly Soman & VX.
    * (U) Sarin & Tuban G-agent; non-persistent nerve compounds
    that can be inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Persistence
    is approx 30 minutes.
    * (U) Soman: G-agent; non-persistent nerve compound like Sarin
    & Tuban, but reacts faster, is more easily absorbed through
    skin, and is less responsive to therapy. Persistence is 4-5
    hours.
    * (U) VX: V-agent; persistent nerve compound. is rated higher
    in reaction time, lethality, etc. than G-agents. Persistence is
    300-325 hours.

    - Iraqi Riot Control: CS.
    * (U) CS: an advanced, non-persistent tearing agent.
    *Note: Agent persistence is reduced in hot climates

    (U) Standard Chemical Use Doctrine:
    - (U) Persistent Agents: Used as an area denial weapon against
    high lnterest enemy targets (airflelds, loglstic centers, HQs,
    etc.) or to impede enemy advance/resupply across known choke
    points. Will not be used in areas its own troops are expected
    to operate in.

    - (U) Non-Persistent Agents: Two primary uses. First, it is
    used defensively to break up an oncomlng attack, thus causing
    confusion and forcing attackers to don restrictive chemical
    warfare suits. Second, it is used offensively to degrade enemy
    defenses prior to attack by own troops.



    (U) Riot Control Agent: Intended to break up demonstrations or
    incapacitate occupants in closed areas (buildlngs), it has been
    successfully used defensively on battle field to break up
    oncoming attacks, thus causing confusion and forcing the
    attackers to don restrictive masks (as in non-persistent agents
    above). Its use is more desirable than non-persistent lethal
    agents when necessary in close proximity to own troops or in
    unpredlctable winds.

    Iraqi CW Use in Missiles: There is no proof that Iraq
    has mated chemical warheads to its misslle assets (SCUDs,
    etc.). It is well within their technology, however, and must
    not be discounted. The best agent would be dusty agents, due to
    their excellent ballistic quallty as a Warhead fill agent.
    Also, wlth Iraq's method of keeping liquid chemical agents in
    plastic vials, and inserting the required vials into ordnance
    As required, filling a SCUD warhead with such vials is possible
    (CEP would suffer when compared to HE or dusty agents which
    provlde more consistent density and balance). As for tactics,
    typical SCUD-type military target would be an airfleld,
    logistic center, or HQ. For such targets, both immediate and
    long-term agent effectiveness is desired to initiate and
    maintain confuslon/restrictive worklng conditions. Thus, VX
    would be ideal lf currently in production. If stlll
    unavailable, a mix of persistent and non-persistent agents is
    llkely (either by firing several missiles of different types,
    or more likely by mixing agent vials in each warhead). Dusty
    mustard can be employed, but most probably by itself as initial
    blast-dispersal with a combined liquid warhead (in one missile)
    would llkely negate the dry, dust cloud effect desired. Thus,
    with current known Iraqi agents, a combined nerve G-
    agent/mustard is Iraq's best CW missile warhead, augmented by
    separate firings of dusty mustard.13

    Iraqi Biological Weapons:
    - Iraq is assessed with a mature offensive BW program. Assessed
    biological agents include anthrax, cholera, gas gangrene,
    botulinum toxin, staphlococcal enterotoxin, brucellosis, and
    mycotoxins.
    - Iraq is currently estlmated to have acquired sufficient
    microbal media for 74 billion human-lethal doses of botulinum
    toxin.
    - Delivery means include all current Iraql CW systems, plus
    covert release via non-mllltary ship or aircraft. Can be
    released upwind [b.1. sec 1.5.(a)] and like chemical
    weapons, atmospheric conditions favor night & early morning
    release.

    Iraql Chem/Bio Reaearch & Productlon Facllitly:
    - Salman Pak (3304N 04435E) 18NM Southeast of Baghdad.
    * Main research center.
    - Samarra (3350N 04350E) 40NM Northwest of Baghdad.
    *Main production facility.
    - Habbaniyah (3332N 04337E) 47NM Northwest of Baghdad.
    *Assessed as producer of precursor chemicals supporting the
    Samarra production facility. Possibly also does final
    production of some agents.

    13 Note: dusty particulates can be impregnated with any
    chemical agent. To date, dusty mustard is the only proven agent
    Iraq has particulated.
    ? Iraqi Chem/Bio Aerial Delivery Systems:

    Type Size Platform
    Aerial bomb 250/500kg Fixed Wing & MI-8
    Spray Apparatus 1500L Tank MI-8
    Canisters Unk MI-8
    AS Rockets 90mm MI-8
    Canister Bomb14 Unk Fixed Wing & MI-8

    Fixed Wing Acft: F-l, MIG-23, & SU-20/22; poss. PC-7 & EMB-312.
    * Any of their acft with hardpoints can be used, however.

    Iraqi Chem/Bio Ground Delivery Systems:
    Type Size
    Mortar 82 & 120mm
    Field Arty 122, 130, 152, 155, 180mm
    MRL 122mm
    Recoilless Rifle 106mm

    I R A Q I A N T I - P E R S O N N E L L A S E R S

    1. During the Iran/Iraq War, Iranian soldlers suffered over 4000
    documented eye casualtles from Iraqi laser systems, enough to indicate
    Iraq's employment of some laser systems specifically for their casuaity-
    producing effect. The Iranian casualties showed effects caused by
    different types of lasers, which is indicative of the mix of western and
    Communist-block systems in the Iraqi inventory. While range and power
    considerations make their use more difficult against aircraft than
    ground personnel, a soldier possessing such a system will certainly
    attempt to use it when under air attack. Unfortunately, the Iranian
    fighter/bomber pilots routinely avoided low level tactics over Iraqi
    ground troops, thus providing no historical data for assessment.

    2. Daytime tracking of aircraft would obviously be easier for the
    laser operator, accomplished by binoculars mechanically boresighted to
    the laser system. Daytime dazzle effects, however, are reduced due to
    the eye's adaption to bright, daytime light. At night, the operator has
    a considerably more difficult time aiming the device, but its effect is
    several magnitudes higher due to the increased sengitivlty of the night-
    adapted eye.

    3. Blinding and vision disruption by visible and IR lasers in
    third world inventories are primarily low-power sygtems, which limits
    their retina damage to a range of about 2NM. The primary threat for
    aircrews would be the ND:YAG laser, which is invislble and painless
    during exposure, and capable of retina damage to a range of about 3NM.
    Iraq, with its extensive mix of western and Communist-block systems, can
    be expected to deploy the full spectrum of available tactical lasers.

    * Not avallable in Iran/Iraq war, is assessed available now, Iraq's
    use of CW/BIO cluster munitions will greatly increases dispersal on
    target.

    Here's the link. Hope it works. Just search Google.

    http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/9708..._txt_0001.html


    ?
    Last edited by rick barclay; 06-12-2003 at 03:19 AM.
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  13. #58
    train spotter
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    Not so abusive this time Rick.

    helicopters ->But they weren't U.S.
    "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
    There are reports about Regan funding the Iraqi purchase of Italian helicopters. Someone was silly enough to write it in their diary after Regan had 'forgotten'.


    >>All the weaponry used by the Irakis was Russian.

    No it wasn't. As the Riegle report I posted clearly shows. The US even sent Iraq nuke technology.

    Check the weapons the UNSCOM inspectors found and destroyed under Butler and Ritter for more details.

    I fail to see the relevence of your CIA report to this discussion (or why it should be believed over the one I posted).
    One of mine is from the CIA's site.

    How does it contradict that Iraq was supplied with WMD by the US?

    From your site, FAS
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2002/09/092602.html
    The precursor to the actual Riegle Report.
    From that report

    ""Did the United States help Iraq to acquire the building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq War? Are we, in fact, now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sown?"

    When Senator Robert Byrd posed those bothersome questions to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at a September 19 hearing, Rumsfeld dismissed the matter with a curt "I doubt it." "

    I saw some of the vision.......
    The look on Rumsfelt's face when he was shown the 1983 video of him shaking hands with Sadam in Iraq, after denying it had taken place, was priceless.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  14. #59
    Funniest man in this seat minesweeper's Avatar
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    >>The Pentqagon thing wasn't posted by you but Minesweeper.
    <<

    It was? Do you mean that conspiracy thing on the plane flown into the pentagon? That was mere food for thought rather than a OMG THE U.S. IS OUT TO GET US!!!!!!

  15. #60
    ¡Amo fútbol!
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    Originally posted by novacain
    after Regan had 'forgotten'.
    Dude, do you have any respect for people whatsoever? The guy has freaking althemiesers (however you spell it). Or is that a conspiracy too?

    There's a certain point when I get ........ed. Insulting the diseased is just ridiculous.

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