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Matrix Reloaded Questions (SPOILERS_

This is a discussion on Matrix Reloaded Questions (SPOILERS_ within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Warning: If you have not watched the matrix, this thread may spoil some information about it to you, so you ...

  1. #1
    Xei
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    Matrix Reloaded: The end, are they still in it?

    Warning: If you have not watched the matrix, this thread may spoil some information about it to you, so you may not wish to continue reading.
    I just finished watching Matrix Reloaded. Now, the ending makes no sense. How could Neo possibly kill sentinels in the 'real world'. This is what I think is going on: The Architect, and the Oracle are security applications, they attempt to influence Neo to do certain things. Why would the agent(s) appear after the Oracle left? Why would the Architect want Neo to select people to start the Matrix over again for? This, I believe, is the answer: They are still in The Matrix. There is a Matrix in the Matrix. I believe that Zion does exist, but everyone is still plugged in. I am also wondering about the other survivor, the guy who wanted to kill Neo but decided not to. They are both in comas, and they both lived through separate Sentinals' attacks; which may mean that they both have the same power in this second-level matrix, so they will eventually have to vs eachother, or else cooperate with eachother, I don't know. Anyways, what do you guys(or girls) think? Do you believe my hypothesis to be correct? (cause really, how could he have power in the real world, Neo did say "No, I can feel them." near the end. Or, perhaps, there is still only one matrix, but Neo is given the Illusion that he is 'out' of the matrix after he went through the door on the left). I do not believe that there have been more than one Neo, but that the Architect is there to 'try' to make Neo believe that there is no way out (that all he is is just another program) - so that the sentinals will be able to take over zion. However, if my first hypothesis is correct (there being 2 matrix's) then that'll mean that in the end of the 3rd Matrix it will all be chaos, and everyone will be 'removed' from the matrix again(through that goop and stuff); this would make sense because the machines can only create 1 matrix based upon real life, and another based to keep them in the matrix, even if they 'think' they got out. Tell me what you think.

    BTW, I think that the Oracle may be bad because she said that Neo would have to accept (Trinitys death, more or less) or "Zion will fall". Yet Neo decided to not accept her death, and he brought her back to life (if ofcourse that really happend, perhaps the door to the left is lies, maybe Trinity never really did die. Maybe they are trying to keep Neo in the matrix to give them time to take over Zion). In any case, Neo went against what the Oracle said, but then again, The Architect didn't seem to like the Oracle very much either.

    What would really make me mad, is that at the end of the 3rd Matrix, Neo wakes up from bed and is in the 'original' world created by the AI.
    Last edited by Xei; 05-16-2003 at 10:08 AM.
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    Red face

    You gave away the ending... I don't care, I already saw it

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    Registered User Scourfish's Avatar
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    Stay for the 5 minutes of credits to finish; there's a trailer for Revolution.
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  4. #4
    Magically delicious LuckY's Avatar
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    You gave away the ending...
    That's a good point. This thread should be prefaced with the fact that it's full of spoilers, as not to ruin it for those who haven't seen it..


    I'm surprised, but glad to see someone else with the same hypothesis that I have. I believe there to be two possibilities:
    1) Neo really does have powers in the "real" world (unlikely)
    2) They are indeed inside a matrix that lies without the original matrix (where Neo came from in part one)

    To be quite honest, I didn't follow a lot of what was said in the movie. I actually like that I have to go back a few more times to watch it to try to really comprehend it. I don't get all the Oracle said and I didn't understand all of what the Architect said, nor do I follow the reasoning for the things the Architect said that I did understand. For example, why in the world would the machines want to kill everyone in the matrix every once in a while only to start again? Why in the devil would they kill everyone in Zion except enough people to respawn their city? They want to destroy humans. Why wouldn't they just destroy them all and be done with it? I don't understand the reasoning behind the machines restarting the matrix over again when it is running perfectly fine with billions of batteries clueless. I also didn't quite follow what he was saying about some woman program that did testing where 99.9% of the people accepted the programming. Hopefully I'll get that when I go back tomorrow.
    Back to the Squidies... I was in a state of shock n awe when I saw that part; "Something's different... I can feel them..." HOLY SHIITE MUSLIM that was insane! My immediate thought was IT'S NOT THE REAL WORLD!
    One thing I must point out to you, Xei, is about the "guy who wanted to kill Neo but decided not to." He did not survive the Sentinel attack because he has Neos power. It appears you didn't recognize him as the guy that Agent Smith entered at the beginning of the movie. He in fact is the one who prematurely activated the EMP to get everyone else slaughtered. They will not eventually cooperate with one another because it is Agent Smith Neo would be cooperating with... !!!
    I just had another thought about that.. How could Agent Smith infect a persons code in the Matrix and then remain part of him when he exits back into the "real" world? I'm thinking that Smith inserted himself along with some kind of a virus into that guy's code in the matrix and thus into his body back in the real world. But when you think about it, how could he insert a program into a real person in the real world? It didn't make sense to me when it happened, but I just accepted it for its face value. But now it makes more sense that perhaps the only way that is possible is that the real body in the real world that accepted Agent Smith's virus is in fact NOT in the real world, but within another matrix...

    Aside from my theories and questions (of which I have many), I just wanted to insert my opinion... IT EFFING OWNS. The movie blew me away... I love it I love it I love it! It is really more than I was hoping for... Now I just have to countdown the seconds to November 15. Damn.
    Last edited by LuckY; 05-16-2003 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Magically delicious LuckY's Avatar
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    Now hold on a second here... I just had another thought. If in fact they are within another matrix in their "real" world, that would mean the millions of machines are also in that matrix. Why oh why would the machines in the real world matrix go and kill all the people in Zion???

    Ay ay ay... This is really baking my noodle.

  6. #6
    Grammar Police HybridM's Avatar
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    Hi guys, firstly, yesterday i almost read this post!! and i hadn't seen reloaded, you should have labeled this thread a spoiler.

    Anyway, as i understand it, Xion and The One are the way in which the machines regulate the matrix, and keep it stable. From The Architect's speech, i gathered that The Oracle was the one who figured out how to keep the matrix stable in this way. The One arises from left over 'stuff' from the imperfections in the program, which must exist in order for Humans to accept it. And in turn, in order for this to work, all people in Xion must be killed, including the current One (though the One may die naturally?) thus allowing the cycle to repeat. That said, i'm not sure if the past 6 cycles have included Agent Smith, who is now a rogue program.

    However, i don't know what to make of Neo stopping those sentinels, i too thought perhaps the 'real world' is another matrix. I guess we wait until November!

    EDIT: But if the 'real world' is another Matrix, why isn't Neo already 'awake'?

    EDIT2: I guess he's not because he accepts it to be real...lol
    I'm having a discussion with myself :-/
    Last edited by HybridM; 05-17-2003 at 07:01 AM.
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    The guy laying down beside Neo at the end is Agent Smith! Remember in the begining of the movie where he was with another good-agent and Smith attacked? Well when he picked up the phone, Agent Smith transferred himself into him or something like that. He made a clone of himself in him. Thats why he wanted to kill Neo. And thats why he triggered the EMP early to help destroy Zion. That's my theory.

    BTW, that movie was awesome!!!

  8. #8
    Its not rocket science vasanth's Avatar
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    Does any one know a site where the story line of the move is available....

  9. #9
    RoD
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    after the mod warning i read none of these posts, but if i understand the original implied question (implied by the topic name) then yes, there will be a third. They made reloaded too long and decided to split it into 2 movies, the second of which will be released in the next 3 - 6 months.

  10. #10
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by RoD
    after the mod warning i read none of these posts, but if i understand the original implied question (implied by the topic name) then yes, there will be a third. They made reloaded too long and decided to split it into 2 movies, the second of which will be released in the next 3 - 6 months.
    Hey, look at that, you're wrong.


    Maybe they're in some other matrix, but I don't think so...maybe somehow doing what he did (disobeying the architect, using the other door) gave hime some power over the machines that the matrix controls?

  11. #11
    Registered User TravisS's Avatar
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    I'm thinking there is a 3 level matrix... you know, a "real" real world, the real world the the "unplugged" people live in, and finally the real world as viewed by 99.9% of the human population.

    If the "unplugged" real world is indeed another matrix, destroying it is at no loss for the machines. Since it is a program within itself, the machines lose nothing. Kinda like rebooting your computer... while your programs may shut down for a bit, when it gets restarted you're starting over fresh.

    I have no idea if that made sense to any body, but then again that would fit in perfectly with the movie itself.

  12. #12
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    Or maybe Neo just did that action at the same time that that other person triggered the EMP.

  13. #13
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    I for one believe that they're still in the matrix, that there's still another level of abstraction they must overcome. Think about it, at the beginning of the first matrix, Neo didn't have any of the powers he does now (inside the matrix) eg. run fast, dodge bullets. When he tried to jump the buildings, he didn't make it. It was only after he started believing he could do it that he was able to. Well, at the end of the matrix: reloaded, he started 'believing' once again (perhaps he started feeling as he did when he encountered the first matrix, hence the "I can feel them" or whatever) and this is why he was able to stop the sentinels.

    Anyhow, I get the impression that there's at least one more matrix (read: infinite loop?) I mean; if it's all programmed what's stopping infinite levels of abstraction? (matrices) The way I see it, they can unplug and reach the next 'level' forever... with each progression, they're just as far as they were beforehand. Perhaps they need to shut the matrix down from within... or something like that.

    Well, I JUST got back from the movie, and that's how I interpreted it.

  14. #14
    Magically delicious LuckY's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RoD
    They made reloaded too long and decided to split it into 2 movies, the second of which will be released in the next 3 - 6 months.
    I love it when people post things as fact when they are everything but. Actually Rod, they didn't make Reloaded too long (5 hours instead of 2) and decide to make it two movies. They wrote two scripts and just shot them simultaneously. Do you also think that the Lord of the Rings was supposed to be one movie but they accidentally made it 9 hours long and decided to cut it into 3 parts? hehe..

    I just got home from watching it a second time. I didn't know there was a trailer for Matrix: Revolutions after the 10 minutes of credits, but I stayed for it this time and loved it... I'm so depressed I have to wait till November to see it!!!

    Hey HybridM, thanks for your post... You totally cleared up a LOT of what I didn't understand about what the Architect said... Of course it all isn't clear to me (yet?), but it really helps... You said you thought the Oracle was the one to figure out how all that worked, but when Neo mentioned her name the Architect replied in a maybe insulted tone, "Please." I am still unclear about why everyone in Zion would have to die... For that matter, whey would everyone in the matrix have to die? If all the "left over" stuff gets reborn into The One, why don't they just kill him?

    Ay ay ay... Still so many questions left unanswered...

  15. #15
    Grammar Police HybridM's Avatar
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    But if the real world is just another matrix, why don't the machines just unplug all the people who are in 'level 2' matrix once they have served their purpose?

    The Architect was insulted because his past programs were works of art, perfection, and yet they didn't work. And now he has to live with the imperfect system the Oracle developed.

    I really want to see this movie again.
    When i saw it i saw it with idiots with laser pointers, and two girls giggling the whole time behind me!! I still managed to pick up more than most, but still...

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