quantum mechanics

This is a discussion on quantum mechanics within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Another good point, you could make a good case for the mass in a black hole being a point and ...

  1. #16
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Another good point, you could make a good case for the mass in a black hole being a point and hence infinite density existing, there are alot of problems with black holes because we know so little of what goes on inside them. So you might well be right, but i could argue that the mass is not a point it is merely forever shrinking, hence has a fixed volume at any point in time and hence a finite density...

    I don't know why but i'm wary of infinites, it may well be just because i don't like the idea in exactly the same way i didn't like the idea of quantum mechanics when i was first introduced to it, its just doesn't feel right somehow, of course i may be well off, and black-holes and maybe many more phenomena show examples of infinite values.
    Last edited by Clyde; 05-06-2003 at 11:14 AM.

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    I dont usually bother spending this much time explaining sarcasm to gay people, but i've made the exception for you.
    Oooo! touche! touche!

    Another good point, you could make a good case for the mass in a black hole being a point and hence infinite density existing, there are alot of problems with black holes because we know so little of what goes on inside them. So you might well be right, but i could argue that the mass is not a point it is merely forever shrinking, hence has a fixed volume at any point in time and hence a finite density...
    Most scientists actually think black holes do not condense infinitely, but can actually only condense to a certain point. Once the black hole has reached that point not even light can escape it, but the black hole is viewed as not being able to condense any further. It's like trying to represent a point with only five decimal places in computer programming. Technically a point is represented by an infinite number of decimal places (or a 0 dimensional vector, if you move at all then you're not at the same point) but once you've hit 5 decimal places then it's reached the smallest point possible, and none of the changes passed the 5th decimal place count. A black hole that has a gravitational pull strong enough to capture light is the hypothecial 5th decimal place. Even if it 'really' gets any smaller scientists view it as being the point represented with 5 decimal places accuracy ( or however many decimal places are represented by our universe).



    This is what i'm reading off of a site. Umm. Yeah.
    Last edited by Silvercord; 05-05-2003 at 01:21 PM.

  3. #18
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Most scientists actually think black holes do not condense infinitely, but can actually only condense to a certain point. Once the black hole has reached that point not even light can escape it, but the black hole is viewed as not being able to condense any further. It's like trying to represent a point with only five decimal places in computer programming. Technically a point is represented by an infinite number of decimal places (or a 0 dimensional vector, if you move at all then you're not at the same point) but once you've hit 5 decimal places then it's reached the smallest point possible, and none of the changes passed the 5th decimal place count. A black hole that has a gravitational pull strong enough to capture light is the hypothecial 5th decimal place. Even if it 'really' gets any smaller scientists view it as being the point represented with 5 decimal places accuracy ( or however many decimal places are represented by our universe).
    Didn't know that, i was under the impression that the repulsive forces were insuffiencient to prevent all matter collapsing in on itself.

    Still, learn something new each day.
    Last edited by Clyde; 05-06-2003 at 08:04 AM.

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    Well, other sites say a singularity is where matter is crushed to infinite density. Here's a NASA site, for example. (Thanks to Google "black hole singularity infinite")
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    That's a cool site, I book marked it, actually, and am reading it right now. You're right it does say zero volume and infinite density. Maybe what I read was trying to say the same thing somehow? I dunno. I understand that any photons emitted by the black hole are sucked back into itself (well, in an orbit actually) but what about passing photons? I mean does it just create an area of space in which no photons can pass? (hence the name black hole because it grabs all of the passing photons?)


    I was thinking about having a neutron star as one of the weapons for a computer game in fifth grade, that it releases them from an 'anti gravity' capsule that contains it and sucks up whatever bad guys are in the vicinity (of course the neutron star is only big enough to suck on 1 bad guy )

    Anyway, in the age of spiritual machines, he hypothesizes (sp?) that this universe may be infinitely expanding and collapsing withing another universe that is also infinitely expanding and collapsing and so on and so forth. Is that what is meant by the term multiverse ?

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    Here's a link to an article in Scientific American discussing parallel a/o multi universes.
    Black holes, at least small ones, can shrink and vanish from loss of matter due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, according to Hawkins.
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    Ohh, so each level of a multiverse is really the distance light has travelled (and hence the farthest out into space we can see) but it is actually all the same space?

    EDIT:
    Black holes, at least small ones, can shrink and vanish from loss of matter due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, according to Hawkins.
    That doesn't make sense. so you are saying it becomes so small that photons can move the black hole? But I thought black holes carried photons into their orbit.
    Last edited by Silvercord; 05-07-2003 at 03:19 PM.

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    That would be one level of a "multi-verse". I think the article has 4 possible levels.
    As for vanishing black holes, Hawkins' book would explain it better.
    Here's a link to a similar idea, and here. (around page 20, 21 or so).
    Last edited by salvelinus; 05-08-2003 at 07:33 AM.
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