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If I get accepted to Digipen, can I still get accepted to other schools if I want to get a masters in something else when I'm done with DP (assuming I'd be getting a bachelors in RTIS)
Also, would I get turned down from 'regular' software jobs if I got a degree from digipen?
yes! you can still get accepted to other schools, i applied to 3 schools and was accepted by 3 schools(digipen, purdue, itt tech) i just chose digipen
>>if I want to get a masters in something else when I'm done with DP
you can. claude comair(founder of digipen) wants to get a masters degree in rtis to go along w/the 2 and 4 year programs...already digipen offers the 2 and 4 year rtis, a 2 year in art/animation, and if you do the 4 year rtis you can get a minor in mathamatics
but if you want to go to another school...that wont be a problem either, actually depending on where you go, you might only have to go for a year to get your masters, digipen puts 5 years of credits into 4
>>Also, would I get turned down from 'regular' software jobs if I got a degree from digipen?
no! digipen's whole philosophy is, "we arent going to teach you direct x, we're going to show you how to write your own".......
yes games, and game programming is the main focus, but it is a computer science degree(more or less) so finding a job afterwards(gaming or 'regular') wont be a difficult task. a lot of people here(myself included) either cant afford or just plain dont want the 4 year degree and those guys arent having any problems finding work
overall its not a bad school, if i had it to do again i wouldnt come here, but not because of the school dont get me wrong...because of the schools relative location 2,417 miles away from my girl :( the school is just like any other, you'll have to take 2-3 crappy classes the 1st year,(and you'll get a chance to see how wonderful project fun is...and the real reason it's called project fun) but it gets better....and easier, the longer you're here the better things seem to get
if you want anymore info let me know OR you can PM polymorphicOOP or Mr.Wizard they're digipen students as well
hope i helped :D
I've got another question, would you be willing to take a camcorder around and film the digipen campus? I'm willing to pay $50 for about 10-15 mins of film assuming it shows most of the Digipen campus (i.e you just walk around and say "this is this building, we do this here"). I'll pay $25 before, and $25 after I get the film in the mail (this sounds like a drug deal). I'm dead serious about this, too. The reason I'm asking is the fact that I cannot fly out there for an interview or anything so I cannot check out the campus.
If you cannot do it maybe you could ask Mr. Wizard, Poly, or anyone else at DP to do it. I would appreciate it a lot, and like I said I'm willing to compensate.
i would, seriously, but it might take a few days, i'll have to ask around to see if anyone has a camera, personally i dont, i could send you a lot of 35mm pics from around school but video would be better, i'll see if any of the guys i know have a camera that i could borrow for a day or 2....hell yeah i'll shoot ya some video.
the campus is in one building, the 2nd floor, i could still walk ya around saying this is this class this is this auditorium etc.
i'll let ya know
I'll PM ya
does DP cover non-game programming types of computing as well?? like OS programming, non-proceedural programming languages, computer architecture, etc....
seems like an interesting school. far to rich for my blood though, id be an 'international' student.
No they dont' have those types of majors, its art and real time interactive simulation (both in 2 and 4 year majors).
go look at the website for more info (www.digipen.edu)
they offer classes but no majors
wow, I looked at the site earlier. It's expensive. ~$50k per year. That has to be one of the most expensive schools I've seen.
edit: nevermind, me being stupid. I just looked at it again, it's ~50k for the degree.
DigiPen doesn't cover "only game programming." It covers programming, with the projects being games. It just happens that games are one of the best places to use complex datastructures, organization, and they can potentially be very complex. Don't expect it to be "This is how you make a game." It's more of a major in programming, with games as the focus for labs.Quote:
Originally posted by Perspective
does DP cover non-game programming types of computing as well?? like OS programming, non-proceedural programming languages, computer architecture, etc....
There are two OS classes offered, I believe, though I'm not sure if the 2nd one actually deals with programming an OS, but it may.
Non-procedural languages? C++ of course! If you meant do they teach languages which FORCE non-procedural programming (IE java), then no. Object oriented design is a common concept between object-oriented languages. The only differences come in the syntax of working with objects, etc. and varying differences in functionality. I personally feel it would be a waste of time to learn several languages which are all object-oriented or all procedural, simply because the complexity of programming doesn't come from syntax, it comes from how the programmer thinks about the situation mentally. If you understand the concept of object-oriented programming (or any other paradigm), then the switch between languages should not be rough, and IMO is not something that should be a large focus.
In terms of my opinions on the school -- I have very mixed feelings. The founder of the school is an ass and completely bastardized the freshman year's courses by "dumming down" courses and adding a "game maker" to one of the classes in an attempt to lower the dropout rate. I also dislike the current setup of making a game in a group every semester, mostly just in 1st year. I say this because 1st year, people still have VERY different levels of experience in C and C++ and so if you know what you're doing, you have to either do the whole project by yourself, or not use advanced features of the language just because the rest of the group doesn't understand, and you have to put up with inexperienced coding problems on the project. Most of the time ends up being spent on problems which would never happen in an environment where everyone was of similar ability (IE working in a group on a professional game). I've thought about leaving at the end of this semester, but I still have hope that things get better in later years. If you come, and know the languages, then try to test out of them. In fact, try to test out of all the freshman CS classes if you can, as they are turning sour.
If you aren't very experienced, then the first year probably won't be as bad, but it's seemed like a waste for me, though I don't know if it would have been any better had I gone somewhere else. Mr. Wizard is a sophmore/junior, so he probably can give you a better view of what the school is like later on. Supposedly it gets better, so if you hold out through the first year, you should be fine.
I dont' know what to say, I dont' think any school will really capture my attention in the first year, simply because me and a lot of other people my age already have too much experience with C and C++. The best we can do is test out of as many courses as possible, and to do something that really shows how much we know (in my case if I could write a full functional bsp compiler from .map files, that would really knock the socks off of a lot of people I think).
The biggest reason I want to go to Digipen is for the classes like Ray tracing and the one on surface modelling using calculus...you just dont' get things like that anywhere else, and I want to be surrounded with other dorks that are willing to put up with the work (I mean if you get as far as ray tracing you probably aren't going to drop out, right?)
Poly, what have you done for yoru group projects? Aren't you only supposed to do text based games your first year? How many other people have more or less the same experience as you in programming? (how many people at digipen are complete newbies)
>>how many people at digipen are complete newbies
i'll tell ya i was, i mean, i went to a tech school before digipen and had to do some c++ as part of my computer curriculum but i didnt really have a handle on it, if you have a good basic base for programming, your first year will be more boring than challenging, really, but if youre like me and only knew hello world and couldnt tell you what an abstract data type was with a gun to my head, you'll have a challenging 1st year, i did ok, but a lot of peole quit because they think digipen is a game design school, where the reverse is true, its a programming school, a lot of other people quit because they think "hmmm, major in video games" and come here expecting to get to play duck hunt all day long
i wont speak for him but i'll tell ya what i've observed....
poly is a genius no doubt, just a genius, the guy is at LEAST a 3rd year student, i mean the guy could explain anything in the damn stroustrup book to you for hours and we hadnt even started classes and he had made some rotating 3d box(while i struggle trying to figure out how to convert celcius to ferenhieght) and to me, he seems bored, like he said, if you can test out, you dont wanna be so bored you just start skipping classes n' such....if you are that far ahead GOOD, but come here, do good, and keep learning more stuff, even if dP doesnt teach it because of the way digipen has lessened the learning curve, guys like me have a chance to get in while guys like poly are bored out of their mind until the end of the 2nd year...PM him and find out he'll tell ya
thats not true. courses like that are available at my university and id imagine they are available at others. im not tryin to knock DP, it seems like my type of place. im just pointing that out. next year ill be taking cmput411 - computer graphics, we cover ray tracing and all that good stuff. in my fourth year ill take cmput 498 - geometric computing, which covers advanced techniques for working with models and all kinds of cool stuff.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
The biggest reason I want to go to Digipen is for the classes like Ray tracing and the one on surface modelling using calculus...you just dont' get things like that anywhere else,
well, java and c++ both fall in the OOP catagory, what i meant was languages like LISP and Sicstus Prolog.Quote:
Non-procedural languages? C++ of course! If you meant do they teach languages which FORCE non-procedural programming (IE java), then no
Well if I do get in I know who I'll be paying to get my homework done (Poly need some dinero?)
I still honestly believe college is just like...well...I dunno kind of a myth in a lot of ways...I don't think it's necessarily necessary, in most cases it just proves you have discipline (this comes from my father who has taken graduate courses...he said he's learned more from each of the 2 week seminars he takes every year in New York than from 8 years of college education). Digipen seems like a good school to go to because it seems more specialized than your run of the mill computer science program. I'm not bashing normal computer science, its still a fine major, but I honestly believe I could pass a lot of the Junior level computer science programming courses with my existing knowledge, or at least without going crazy (I know a lot of junior level computer science courses deal with some pretty complicated algorithms, but depends where you at ).
Ok well munky I'm anxious to see what Digipen looks like...and...I smell money, hmm. This is going to seem like a weird question, but are there a lot of jerks there? I honestly want to go there to learn something, and I want to be comfortable doing it, I don't want to take crap from elitist jerks (i.e is Poly going to beat me up and take my lunch money when my ray tracing program doesn't work?:):))
>>is Poly going to beat me up and take my lunch money when my ray tracing program doesn't work?
lol, if only, he's so little it wouldnt matter. nah, if anything he'd stand over your shoulder for 3 hours trying to help... i havent run into any jerks, there are a lot of guys here that are ahead of the curve...but i dont think i've heard one be a dick about it...like "ha ha, you dont know how to pass by reference" er some bullpoop like that
the absolute worst thing about it here(if you dont have a significant other)....the damn rain
Only if I decide to come back next semester...Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
Well if I do get in I know who I'll be paying to get my homework done (Poly need some dinero?)
You'd probably be correct if this were two or three years ago, but not now. Comair has made the first year courses retarded from what I've seen so far. While I'm sure that in many ways you may get a better programming education than many other colleges, it's still nothing like what it used to be.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
Digipen seems like a good school to go to because it seems more specialized than your run of the mill computer science program.
That's probably true, and I feel the same way about my abilities. I entered with an abnormally high amount of experience in C++, but that didin't seem to affect anything. You're just forced to waste the first 2 years being stuff that you already understand and in greater detail than they go into. Unfortunately, no colleges that I've looked at seem to cater to incoming freshman that are experienced programmers, so if you know the languages and algorithms and can program well, you'll probably end up being bored like you would at any other school. This entire year has felt like a waste of time for me, and I think I would have learned more if I had not even gone to college at all. I'm posting at a bad time for me personally, so maybe I'm making it out to be worse than it is, but from what I've seen, there aren't any majors that give you the programming courses you should have. At first I thought it may just be here, but I've talked to several people from many different schools who have majored in CS, software engineering, and the like, and I've noticed that none of them could program very well at all. Not only do they have trouble with advanced concepts in programming, but I've found that they don't even know the entire language.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
I'm not bashing normal computer science, its still a fine major, but I honestly believe I could pass a lot of the Junior level computer science programming courses with my existing knowledge, or at least without going crazy (I know a lot of junior level computer science courses deal with some pretty complicated algorithms, but depends where you at ).
#begingeneralrant
A lot of people are hesitant to major in CS now-a-days (any CS, not digipen's RTIS) because it's becoming hard to find a job. The problem isn't that there are a lot of good programmers out there -- the problem is that most graduates simply aren't good programmers. I look at it similarly to how I look at people who major in something like music. Sure, you can go through college majoring in music, but does that make you a good composer? Not necessarily. The same thing goes for CS, only now, no one seems to understand that, yet they all want to be programmers.
#endgeneralrant
I don't know anyone here who is an elitist jerk. Most of the better programmers simply don't talk much because they're busy programming anyways :p It's the ones who think they know a lot that are actually the jerks, but that numer is still very low.Quote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
This is going to seem like a weird question, but are there a lot of jerks there? I honestly want to go there to learn something, and I want to be comfortable doing it, I don't want to take crap from elitist jerks (i.e is Poly going to beat me up and take my lunch money when my ray tracing program doesn't work?:):))
__________________
Be warned. If you know C++ well, you're going to want to kill yourself during the first two semesters. As I've said, Comair has introduced a "game maker" to the first semester, and the C++ class has become a joke (they still haven't even started on inheritance yet and theres just 2 weeks left in the semester, which is partially do to the fact that they have a C programmer teaching C++).
As an experienced C++ programmer, the first two semesters of GAM are going to be hell. You'll be either making the entire game, having no time for anything else, or you'll have to program down to their level of experience (read 0 experience), and watch over everything they do becaues of bugs and design flaws. The school's got problems with their course setup -- the only programming class first semester is an introductory C class yet during that same semester you are required to make a game with a group of 5 other people. Imagine all the problems you had the first month or two of programming and then multiply that by 5 to get an idea of what you have to work with.
Not only that, but half of those people don't even want to program. They come here with the illusion that they could come here and end up being game designers instead of programmers, so they will show no effort. Half of the remaining ones will be busy with other work, because they also are required to make another game using the "game maker" that comair has forced upon freshman students, not to mention the fact that there are 7 classes total during semester 1 alone!
DigiPen is not good for incoming experienced programmers or people coming in with no experience. There is a very slim range in between that will find the DigiPen experience truely worthwhile. All through this year I've been dangling on a thread of hope that maybe it will get better, and I'm extremely tempted to just cut that thread loose.
If there's one thing that's good about the school, it's the atmosphere and the attitude of a lot of the people here. It's still mostly geeks and they are mostly all very nice people, which is very rare to find for nearly an entire school. You also get to be taught by some people with experience in the game industry, which, IMO, is a huge plus.
It's up to you, but be aware that it's not the perfect school that you may be hoping for.
Blunt, but everything he says is true...i dont think he'll quit because, well because thats just not poly. the "game maker" is truly awful, the first week i was here i was listening to comair say "never release buggy code" and this this is the most buggy useless software... the sad thing is, right now the curve is too low, but a few years ago it was too high, if you dont mind going through some horrible classes semester 1&2 it will get better....cuz hey graphics come into play at some point
for me it's worth it, in and out in 2 years and hopefully i'll be better off than regular joe shmoe BS in CS.
poly's had it rough though, the groups he's had to work with are dumb.....he spends all of his time coding...not for opulantproductions but for his games cuz his group sux0r
http://www.povray.org/ Here you go, an open source ray tracer. Now you don't even need college :)Quote:
The biggest reason I want to go to Digipen is for the classes like Ray tracing and the one on surface modelling using calculus...you just dont' get things like that anywhere else, and I want to be surrounded with other dorks that are willing to put up with the work (I mean if you get as far as ray tracing you probably aren't going to drop out, right?)
lmao blackrat, sweet!!! I'll put that link on my resume!
STFU Poly..."Oh I was probably slightly advanced coming into digipen...I farted on my keyboard and the blast from my ass re wrote the doom III engine except this is better"...STFU!, you could probably find errors in Ph. D dissertations on this stuff man :) Poly as you already said I don't think things are going to really be better anywhere else. Even if you teach everything to yourself having the degree is a good thing if you want to get into the gaming industry. Despite everything bad that has been said it might be worth it to just suffer through the boring stuff (hey, it'll all be that much easier) so at the end you can moon people with your big fat RTIS degree and possibly get a masters in Math in case you want to become an architect like I might (references to poly's rear end so far: 2, disturbing: yes).Quote:
That's probably true, and I feel the same way about my abilities
About the whole jerk thing Poly, when I re read my post I kind of implied that you were a jerk, I didn't mean it (I didn't realize how it would come across at the time). I like the idea of being surrounded with other geeks, some of them actually good at programming. i hope to learn something new, either by spending my extra time programming or chatting with more knowledgable people (Mr. Wizard is someone I'd lke to meet, but he'd probably be graduated by then). The whole academic system seems to not place all that much emphasis on actually getting good at given skills.
Ok i g2g now (freaking homework) I like chatting with you guys.
EDIT: Poly I asked you a plane question check your PM please.
Yeah, I noticed. I don't mind. I do get angry on the boards some times so I'm not surprised you might think that, though I should kick your ass for that remark. :pQuote:
Originally posted by Silvercord
About the whole jerk thing Poly, when I re read my post I kind of implied that you were a jerk, I didn't mean it (I didn't realize how it would come across at the time).
However, that is completely opposite my "real" personality (I'm sure munky will vouche for me on that, and maybe wizard, though I don't really know him). In fact, I literally don't talk in real life. I just sit around and program. I don't ever show anger. I never let anyone know if I'm mad. I never act serious, period. If I had the balls to do so, I would probably go up to Comair and tell him what I really think of him and the way RTIS is headed. Of course, if I did, he wouldn't really care anyways. After all, I'm just a student, right?
They lie in their coursebook about the courses they teach and they make people pay money for what they did not want to learn. They have C programmers teach C++. They force you to work in unbalanced teams before most people even know how to program. The problem is that they simply don't know what they are doing and apparently don't even care that they're doing an awful job.
A lot of people feel the same way as me, but no one is willing to stand up and revolt, so we are stuck with poorly thought-out semesters. It's a joke. Unfortunately for me, I'm sick of laughing. It's not funny anymore -- it's just sad. How anyone could allow it to get so bad is beyond me, but it doesn't show any signs of changing.
References to silvercord's rear end: 1
I agree. Do I keep my lunch money this time?Quote:
Yeah, I noticed. I don't mind. I do get angry on the boards some times so I'm not surprised you might think that, though I should kick your ass for that remark.
Where would you plan on going if you left, and are you really going to leave? It still seems the later courses are cool. As we've said eight hundred million times we'd be bored in ANY first year comp sci program.
As for your personality, you say you don't talk, does this mean that I would have to like slap you and throw stuff at you and yell to try to get a conversation out of you? I want to talk to the geeks at the geek school. Has DP told you about the video he's making?
References to poly's ass: zero!
EDIT: how old are you DP? How old are you POly?
I'm 37, DP is 44Quote:
how old are you DP? How old are you POly?
yesQuote:
As for your personality, you say you don't talk, does this mean that I would have to like slap you and throw stuff at you and yell to try to get a conversation out of you?
>>I'm 37, DP is 44
Then why, for the love of God, do you look 5?
:(Quote:
Originally posted by Polymorphic OOP
I'm 37, DP is 44
yes
omg he does hahaQuote:
Then why, for the love of God, do you look 5?
i'm 18. it is listed in my profile, you know :rolleyes:
i usually hear people saying i look 12, but 5 is a new one. you get a star!
oh yeah, profile, DERR I'm cool.
Well in your little 50x50 avatar thingamabobhoohah you kinda do look five or 12 or something. I can see 44 if I stand on my head (or flip my monitor upside down).
>>I'm 37, DP is 44
im 19, ya see, this is how things are around the house.....dP:hey did you do this today poly?......poly:huh?, no, well, i guess, minus the farting
he's never serious
but he's right about people not speaking up...a few people have but not enough to make people re-look over those things
you guys are doing a good job of making me not want to go at all...hmm... About the not being serious thing that is how my other programming friend is. I ask him if he did something and he asks me if I think he looks like Janet Jackson.
On one hand I don't want the school I go to to be impossibly hard, so I'm somewhat glad that Digipen is turning into a not as difficult school, on the other hand I don't want to go to a school where I can just look at porn all day and maintain a 57GPA (on the 4.0 scale)
:confused:
i dont know, for me, i know that to get my foot in the door in the industry its worth it for me to come here and get my degree....when i got here i didnt know practically any programming at all....but now im on the threashold of object oriented, and honestly, im satisfied....yeah, there are some quirky things here, but lets face it, youre chances increase of getting in the door in the games industry by comming here....if youre good, you might have to go thorugh some boredom...but whats stopping you from studying the stuff you dont, on your free time
That makes more sense. I was wondering why I had always thought you were around 18.Quote:
Originally posted by Polymorphic OOP
i'm 18. it is listed in my profile, you know :rolleyes:
i usually hear people saying i look 12, but 5 is a new one. you get a star!
And you'd better not just being sarcastic about that gold star...I really want one :(
lmao
why is it retarded stuff like that that always makes me laugh
dont answer that
Polymorphic OOP
He is absolutely right.going to school just to get the paperQuote:
A lot of people are hesitant to major in CS now-a-days (any CS, not digipen's RTIS) because it's becoming hard to find a job. The problem isn't that there are a lot of good programmers out there -- the problem is that most graduates simply aren't good programmers. I look at it similarly to how I look at people who major in something like music. Sure, you can go through college majoring in music, but does that make you a good composer? Not necessarily. The same thing goes for CS, only now, no one seems to understand that, yet they all want to be programmers.
wont do no good.I wasted 5 years for my paper(mech eng)
just so, my mom & dad would get off my back & having some
education .
I never enjoyed it(except the pub life) & naturaly didnt
practice it afterward.
I truly enjoy coding(never took a course for it). just a hobby.
If only i would have known programming sooner, those
5 years would have been a true & funfilled academic gains.
Do they offer online courses at digipen .?
edit;
Come to think of it, may be a few of the brains on this
sight would be interested to teach in a cyber class.
If i get the capital & license(you need 3 ppl with teaching credentials).Imagine all the tuition we collect.
Hey you may be the next dean of game design faculty!.
cheers!
>>Do they offer online courses at digipen .?
nope....
Wow..Don't ask me how i found this thread. I was interested in it because I'm a student at DigiPen (Lebanese' Campus)..I'm just in my junior year (Well it's DigiPen's first year in Lebanon). I just wanted to point that DigiPen concentrates a little bit on games more than other Universities is that it believes that Games are the most complex 'programs' to write. That doesn't mean that it doesn't concentrate on other stuff like OS...Well I must admit that it's tough, but it's worth it...
Holy forum necromancy, batman!
> Games are the most complex 'programs' to write.
erm, dont get me wrong, i love game programming and i know they can be very complex but definatly not the most complex programs. try programming something like "Maple"
Any cute girls at digipen?
>>At first I thought it may just be here, but I've talked to several people from many different schools who have majored in CS, software engineering, and the like, and I've noticed that none of them could program very well at all. Not only do they have trouble with advanced concepts in programming, but I've found that they don't even know the entire language. <<
Thats why companies want experienced programmers. It takes a while (year or two) to get up to 'comercial' speed.
>>A lot of people are hesitant to major in CS now-a-days .. because it's becoming hard to find a job.<<
Very hard or the pay is being significantly reduced. There seems to still be openings for cheap graduates (who will work for nothing to get experience).
Or guys with ten years plus in ten different languages (three you have never heard of).
This has a lot to do with large companies sending their IT departments offshore (or fully outsourcing) where labour is cheaper.
>>you are required to make a game with a group of 5 other people. Imagine all the problems you had the first month or two of programming and then multiply that by 5 to get an idea of what you have to work with.<<
The joys of team building, get used to it.
Those with the knowledge are expected to impart their wisdom to the masses. (in effect free teaching for the college)
Just as a wise manager allocates tasks to those in the team who have an aptitude for them.
A lot of schools only cover the basics of several different languages, while going more in depth into algorithms than "real world projects"(real world projects are very time consuming, and difficult to cover in college's semester time frame).Quote:
Originally posted by novacain
>>At first I thought it may just be here, but I've talked to several people from many different schools who have majored in CS, software engineering, and the like, and I've noticed that none of them could program very well at all. Not only do they have trouble with advanced concepts in programming, but I've found that they don't even know the entire language. <<
Thats why companies want experienced programmers. It takes a while (year or two) to get up to 'comercial' speed.
I did a co-op program, which really helped me to code very well. I had to write two real world programs within a team enviroment.
I think students who go out in look for summer and/or part time interns as programmers will be very well suited in the real world (right out of college).
I remember reading an article (posted on this message board) saying that most companies will only hire cs students right out of college if they have completed a project, or have done internships as a programmer while in college.
Just thought I'd throw that out here!
Does this mean no cute girls...?Quote:
Originally posted by Terrance
Any cute girls at digipen?
no everyone just has sex with poly