US attack in Iraq (WAR Talk)

This is a discussion on US attack in Iraq (WAR Talk) within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >>". I challenge you. educate me<< They know we own their country....we dictate the way they live and talk. And ...

  1. #256
    erstwhile
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    >>". I challenge you. educate me<<

    They know we own their country....we dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need.

    Brigadier-General William Looney, US air force, director of the bombing of Iraq
    And that comment was uttered by the aptly named general before what is described as the current war started. But it seems to me that those words succinctly summarise the future of Iraq.

    [semantics]
    'Stolen' or 'liberated'
    'Theft' or 'freed'
    [/semantics]

    Or, to put it another way: "All property is theft" (Engels)

  2. #257
    Registered User zahid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Fitlike

    And that comment was uttered by the aptly named general before what is described as the current war started. But it seems to me that those words succinctly summarise the future of Iraq.
    [semantics]
    'Stolen' or 'liberated'
    'Theft' or 'freed'
    [/semantics]

    Or, to put it another way: "All property is theft" (Engels)

    Nothing to be serious: This is symbolic and symbol of freedom. I cann't hide myself for 86400-7-365.
    It's really difficult to hide myself for all the time to all the people.

    People from around globe, are waiting to hear a strong voice from the people of far west.
    Last edited by zahid; 04-27-2003 at 06:11 AM.
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  3. #258
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    again, my question is simple and it doesn't ask for opinions or quotes from military people. It is a small request for a fact. When has the US ever stolen another country's oil.

    "educate yourself" you demand?

    educate - To provide with information; inform

    indoctrinate - To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view

    the difference? fact in one case, opinion in the other. which do you attempt? in order to educate, you must be willing to provide the facts. Please do. I'm waiting. no more opinions and quotes. Show me the evils of the US.



    oh.. and playing on my screen name is real original by the way. I was really impressed
    Last edited by FillYourBrain; 04-27-2003 at 01:07 PM.
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  4. #259
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
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    For those who think that the US is the one stealing OIL are foolz - all the oil we take we pay for...

    The stealer of iraq's oil is the UN -- the "OIL FOR FOOD" program is a big sham and the end of saddam's regime has shown this. The oil for food program brought in over $1billion in revenue to the UN and now that saddam is gone and iraq can resume normal relations with the rest of the world the UN is saying that the oil for food program must continue and that no sanctions can be lifted. We know the FRENCH and RUSSIANS are mostly behind the UN's actions but many other Anti-american countries have had their hands in iraq's oil ILLEGALY -- but of course their actions were legitimized by the UN's unwillingness to enforce it's own resolutions...

    French and Russian oil companies did business, much of it illegal according to the sanctions with iraq throughout the sanctions -- the UN is now unwilling to give up it's revenue source and continue the oppression of iraq and threatening to not lift the sanctions... under the UN sanctions many countries traded with iraq illegaly using oil trades to provide high-tech video and computer and electronics to iraq - much of which was explicitly stated as forbidden in the sanctions...

    For 12+ years the UN and the anti-american coalitions have profited from the sanctions while the US/UK have paid billions to keep the forces and maintain the bases that enforced the sanctions, also enduring the growing resentment of the US in that region which inspired the terrorism against us -- all as the rest of the world pocketed riches -- I hope you can understand now why many americans are upset with the UN and the other countries who've shown their true colors concerning their feelings of the US.

    For all those who support the UN more than the US and accuse of conspiracies... just look who was profiting from the sanctions and look at the behaviour of those especially the UN now that the issue with saddam and iraq is solved, it's pathetic and anyone who refuses to see is retarded or blind...
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  5. #260
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    >>educate - To provide with information; inform<<

    Did that. But I knew you weren't going to like it.

    >>indoctrinate - To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view<<

    You have no idea of the irony.

    >>in order to educate, you must be willing to provide the facts.<<

    Some truths are implicit. I'm terribly sorry if you are unable to infer those kind of facts from the likes of Gen. Looney's observations.

    >>no more opinions and quotes<<

    In a political discussion? You have to be joking, right?

    >>Show me the evils of the US.<<

    ...er...that's really an 'opinion' thing again...

    Originally posted by OneStiffRod
    Large curly dump with steam rising from it.
    Feel better now?

  6. #261
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    >> Did that. But I knew you weren't going to like it
    funny, you weren't part of the conversation.

    >> You have no idea of the irony.
    I haven't been talking about my view, only requesting some factual basis for his. He, to this point has been unable to give it.

    >> Some truths are implicit. I'm terribly sorry if you are unable to infer those kind of facts from the likes of Gen. Looney's observations.
    His statement as well as lots of statements from lots of people in this large country could be bad but have no reflection on the intentions of the gov. That's why statements/opinions don't prove anything. I once heard a guy on the side of the road screaming "Death to white people". Does that have any bearing on the government of his country?

    >> In a political discussion? You have to be joking, right?
    I'm disproving the argument that the US should be hated for its desire to steal oil Not engaging in politics. If the US has never stolen oil from a nation in the past (and it hasn't) then it is quite a leap that so many have made in their opinion of us.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  7. #262
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    the grander point. If you're saying that your entire basis for hating the US is for its desire to steal arab oil and you can't even show ONE example where they have done that I would say that you have shown your convictions to be hollow and your emotional mind to be much stronger than your rational mind. This IS a board for programmers. I expect better. you should too.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  8. #263
    Registered User zahid's Avatar
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    Post Exclusively for FillYourBrain.
    Originally posted by FillYourBrain
    Show me the evils of the US.
    27th April: Confess by Zahid, Part Two:, and the next Reply. You definitely missed the post, read it and read it well, if necessary review the thread, and you should study out of this thread too, go in a quiet place, like nearest olive garden. Think again .. think with great attention, don't say again, show me this, poof me that, I don't get this, I don't understad that, I don't see any x, I don't find any y. Or just leave it, It does not matter. Your mind is not ready to accept it. Not necessary to understand all the things around the universe. You could be better in math, ohhh I guess not. You could be better in game, party.


    oh.. and playing on my screen name is real original by the way. I was really impressed
    So you never thought that it could be done on purpose. I'm happy that you are impressed.

    See how Powell is thinking in a busy place, lots of people around:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by zahid; 04-27-2003 at 11:41 PM.
    [ Never code before desk work ]
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    =------------------------------------------------------= - I may be wrong.

  9. #264
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    FYB.

    You ask for a link where the US has stolen oil. By this you demand a very narrow semantically definition of theft. What exactly do you mean by 'stolen the oil'?

    Taken it without paying a cent?
    Taken it without paying a fair price?
    Supported dictators that sell the US oil cheap even though the US knows they are corrupt?
    Allowed US oil companies to pollute countries if it gets the US cheap oil? (use methods that in other countries that would not meet US standards)
    Manipulated the political situation to allow a regime that favors the US to gain power?


    As Ken Fitlike tried to point out it is not as simple as you want it put.



    The US has allowed its oil corporations to exploit oil supplies in Angola (the US's biggest oil supplier) and Nigeria. Look at the poverty in these countries with vast oil reserves that will never benefit the local population. Is this corruption in the oil industry, that the US turns a blind eye to, considered theft?

    Don't you think this is theft, from the local population for the enrichment of corrupt local government officials and US oil companies (like those owned by the GWB and Cheney)?



    I could point out that the US said to the UN that we KNOW Iraq has WMD. Then the US should KNOW where they are (by now).
    Why are we not seeing the WMD on CNN?

    Does this not bring into question the whole point of the war? If not for WMD, what was the war for?

    Or are you convinced that Sadam is still able to hide these masses of WMD from the US? But then how did the US (specifically Rumsfelt and Powel) KNOW they had them in amounts that threatened the WORLD?



    Where as we are pointing out that the US is using Iraqs oil to break the OPEC monopoly and return the power in the oil industry to the US. Or to stop OPEC converting to the Euro and destroying the shaky US economy (along with Japan).

    Remember high oil prices have been the cause of most of the U.S. recessions just as low oil prices have been the spark for most of its booms. GWB needs this to salvage his tax cuts and stop the politically damaging drilling in the Alaskan wilderness.

    As the US has little tax on oil a price hike would hurt the US much more than Europe or Australia as we could drop our tax rates to stabilize the price.

    Specifically, Saudi Arabia has 25% of the world’s oil. It has most of the extra supply that stabilizes prices in the event of a shortage (ie as we saw in Venezuela recently).

    To keep it out of the majority Muslim populations control (ie if Saudi Arabia had a democratic election) the US supports a king that is actually brain dead.
    Don't you find it ironic that Saudi Arabia is run by a woman, the kings favorite wife, who can't show her face in public? That she faces death if caught alone with a non male relative? (ie in a meeting)

    Yet the US supports this regime.

    Why does the US does not arrest the Saudi Ambassador that met two of the S11 hijackers in Boston?
    Why have there been no arrests in Saudi Arabia over S11 even though all the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia?

    Because the US knows that a democratic election in Saudi Arabia would elect a Bin Laden, if not Osama, then one of his relatives.

    http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...27iraqoil.html
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  10. #265
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    novacain I am so thankful. You have attempted to introduce facts. Although you didn't seem to realize that it is all that I was asking for. I will touch on each point.

    Originally posted by novacain
    You ask for a link where the US has stolen oil. By this you demand a very narrow semantically definition of theft. What exactly do you mean by 'stolen the oil'?

    Taken it without paying a cent?
    Taken it without paying a fair price?
    Supported dictators that sell the US oil cheap even though the US knows they are corrupt?
    Allowed US oil companies to pollute countries if it gets the US cheap oil? (use methods that in other countries that would not meet US standards)
    Manipulated the political situation to allow a regime that favors the US to gain power?
    Any of those will be a starting point. fact is the only thing I'm willing to go on. Not speculation of motives and quotes from unimportant people which is all I ever hear from any of those on that side of the debate.

    Originally posted by novacain
    The US has allowed its oil corporations to exploit oil supplies in Angola (the US's biggest oil supplier) and Nigeria. Look at the poverty in these countries with vast oil reserves that will never benefit the local population. Is this corruption in the oil industry, that the US turns a blind eye to, considered theft?
    Nope, it's called the government not interfering with business, as it should be. If the seller is a dictator who poorly runs their country it does not create a situation where the US is responsible for the poverty. We do not govern them.

    The real fun part is that Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain and Western Europe and Asia don't seem to mind. Perhaps you should hate them as well, but then its not as fun as hating the US is it?


    Originally posted by novacain
    I could point out that the US said to the UN that we KNOW Iraq has WMD. Then the US should KNOW where they are (by now).
    Why are we not seeing the WMD on CNN?

    Does this not bring into question the whole point of the war? If not for WMD, what was the war for?

    Or are you convinced that Sadam is still able to hide these masses of WMD from the US? But then how did the US (specifically Rumsfelt and Powel) KNOW they had them in amounts that threatened the WORLD?
    This remains to be seen but has little to do with the Oil discussion. Or have you run out of examples?

    Originally posted by novacain
    Where as we are pointing out that the US is using Iraqs oil to break the OPEC monopoly and return the power in the oil industry to the US.
    more speculation. facts! facts! Deal in facts! You were on the right track for a moment. we can speculate all we want about Iraq's future in OPEC but I see no indication (as there is no gov yet) that Iraq will not be a member of OPEC.

    Originally posted by novacain
    Yet the US supports this regime.
    Oh yes this has a great deal to do with stealing oil. You're falling once again into the mind of zahid which is ideology-filled and fact-free. He knows the US is evil but he's not sure why because no information led him to this conclusion.

    however, thank you for introducing one example. an example that was weak to say the least. and one that should make you hate those other countries as well......


    but doesn't
    Last edited by FillYourBrain; 04-28-2003 at 07:39 AM.
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  11. #266
    Registered User zahid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FillYourBrain
    >>]novacain I am so thankful. You have attempted to introduce facts.
    Seems this is for the next sentence. Lets see.
    >>Although you didn't seem to realize that it is all that I was asking for. I will touch on each point.
    See.. here it is, whatever happens the big tree is yours. (I guess you will not understand again)

    >>Oh yes this has a great deal to do with stealing oil.
    Seems this is for the next sentence. Lets see.
    >>You're falling once again into the mind of zahid which is ideology-filled and fact-free.
    Another proof, you havn't yet tried.
    >>He knows the US is evil but he's not sure why because no information led him to this conclusion.
    How did you get into that conclusion, where did you find this statement. Is that your creation, answering on behalf of me?
    You are continiously posting without any development, do the first thing first. I can feel you are kiiling yourself to win, this isn't the right topic for you to win.
    Last edited by zahid; 04-28-2003 at 07:50 AM.
    [ Never code before desk work ]
    -------------------------------------:-->
    A man who fears Nothing is the man who Loves Nothing
    If you Love Nothing, what joy is there in your life.
    =------------------------------------------------------= - I may be wrong.

  12. #267
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    zahid, I know english is not your first language so I'm not attacking you here but I have no idea what you just said. Is there any way you could run through that and clean it up a bit?

    edit:
    except for maybe this:

    >>He knows the US is evil but he's not sure why because no information led him to this conclusion.
    How did you get into that conclusion, where did you find this statement. Is that your creation, answering on behalf of me?
    no, I've been asking for facts for quite some time now. So far nothing has come from you.
    Last edited by FillYourBrain; 04-28-2003 at 07:51 AM.
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  13. #268
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    Originally posted by zahid
    You are continiously posting without any development, do the first thing first. I can feel you are kiiling yourself to win, this isn't the right topic for you to win.
    I don't believe so. it is a requirement for rebuttal that I see your facts. Rhetoric is not enough to rebut. It's quite silly to throw rhetoric back at you actually.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  14. #269
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    just let novicain answer. I'd like to have an intelligent conversation.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

  15. #270
    pronounced 'fib' FillYourBrain's Avatar
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    zahid, study this quote from novicain:
    The US has allowed its oil corporations to exploit oil supplies in Angola (the US's biggest oil supplier) and Nigeria. Look at the poverty in these countries with vast oil reserves that will never benefit the local population. Is this corruption in the oil industry, that the US turns a blind eye to, considered theft?
    this is talking about a specific occurrence in history. An event. Something that actually happened. You are spouting insinuations and hate. post in a civilized manner and you will get better responses.
    "You are stupid! You are stupid! Oh, and don't forget, you are STUPID!" - Dexter

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