US attack in Iraq (WAR Talk)

This is a discussion on US attack in Iraq (WAR Talk) within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >are the detainees at x-ray even POW's? NO! >All I can find on Google is unconfirmed. I told you watch ...

  1. #136
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    >are the detainees at x-ray even POW's?

    NO!

    >All I can find on Google is unconfirmed.

    I told you watch the $$$$ing television, they didn't embed the reporters for nothing mmmk, there stranglely is nothing up to date on the net about the war.

    >You say it is fact but refuse to back it up with data.

    since when is it a requiremen for facts to have a LINK?
    i told you a thousand freaking times how to verify my information, if your unwilling to understand or cooperate then i cant help you.

    >
    I have seen the footage from the net. In war people get shot, some even get shot in the head.
    <

    yeah, it was all just an accident yeah,... yeah, and your Iraq's information minister... oh $$$$ wait.

    >Remember the Kuwaiti propaganda before the last Gulf war?

    different war, different times, i doubt you'll hear such thing this time.

    >Again please post a link to any confirmed report.

    see the relevant above answer...

    >Until then I will not follow you in jumping to conclusions.

    wtf? they not jumped to nor are they my conclusions. Just because your not capable of adding 1 + 1( it equals 2 btw), aint my fault.

    this is why i can't stand to argue with you, you dont listen to any freaking thing is say.

    Are we done here? i sure as hell am, im tired of wastin my time, you aint gonna stop hating the U.S. you are never gonna except anything but that the U.S. is evil and has evil intentions. i got nothing against you, but you got a vendetta, and i don't care to hear it anymore.
    Yeah the U.S. has done some bad things in the past, so what, we aint alone, and we're far from the worst; So we call some prisoners "illegal combatants", so we can hopefully protect out country, and our people, and deter further actions, yeah so our world policy can be viewed as hipocritical if you want to see it that way, that all you got? that aint nothing, look at Saddams record, now tell me we're the bad guys?

    thats what i thought.

    I think i'm done here.
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  2. #137
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    >>are the detainees at x-ray even POW's?

    If not what are they?

    Most were captured in a war area (if not on a battlefield)
    If they are not POW's then they must be criminals.
    Except then they would have been illegally extradited, detained and questioned. If they are criminals under what law are they held? It has been clearly established in the US supreme court that Camp X-Ray is not subject to US law.
    Does the US have an extradition treaty with Pakistan and Afghanistan under which they were removed from the country of capture? No extradition was used (or they would have been able to get legal representation)
    Why is the US holding Australian and British citizens under military law without trial, legal council and without charging them for 18 months?

    Remember the US decided their status arbitarily (D Rumsfelt did).

    Iraq and SH could decide that all allied military personel are illegal combatants (as the UN did not sanction the war) and execute them all.
    That is just as arbitary.
    The only threat the allies have is 'war crimes'. What you going to do, kill Sadam twice? I don't see Sadam being captured alive nor surendering.
    Its a dangerous precident the US has set in this matter. It risks all the allies troops. If the 'good guys' don't play by the rules, nobody will.

    How about this link to the execution stories. Does this start to prove that it could be propaganda you were spouting no-one?

    " Blair's spokesman said the execution charge was based on the fact that the two soldiers were lying some distance from their vehicle and had been stripped of their helmets and body armor.

    Reporters asked if it were possible their equipment was removed after they were killed in action, but got no response. "
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...execution_dc_4
    Note the date ::Fri Mar 28 ie is after the Camp David talks where Blair and Bush stated the claims of executions.



    >>different war, different times, i doubt you'll hear such thing this time.
    Same country, same opponent, same US presidental dynasty................

    Prahaps this time the 'babies in incubators' will be how SH is committing war crimes by executing prisoners................

    Or how SH has tonnes of WMD.............

    Or how the Iraqis will rise up and overthrow SH (even though we let them get slaughtered last time a Bush asked them to try)......................

    Whats your favorite?

    As I said before I will wait before jumping to conclusions. I could be wrong but at least I am keeping an open mind.

    >>since when is it a requiremen for facts to have a LINK?

    Sorry my mistake. I was taught that facts were verifiable, repeatable and independent. Not malleable or discardable due to requirements.

    >>this is why i can't stand to argue with you, you dont listen to any freaking thing is say.

    You become personal (and derogatory) at the first hint of any comment that does not praise the US to the rafters.
    You refuse to back up you rhetoric with anything verifiable, repeatable or independent.
    So why should I bother to listen?
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
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    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
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  3. #138
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    >If not what are they?

    its called illegal combatants, look it up.

    >
    How about this link to the execution stories. Does this start to prove that it could be propaganda you were spouting no-one?
    <

    It proves nothing, you explain the soldiers shot in the face, you explain that away.

    if you'll read my previous post, and i quote "i hear Blair himself confirmed it" i missed it myself.

    i would guess, that blair and bush have lots of info you don't so i think that they would know, yeah there a chance its proaganda, yeah i'll bet that Saddam's really an angel and didn't beat the $$$$ out of the other POW's of ours, we're so bad.

    and you do exactly what you've been doing, give Saddam the benefit.

    >
    Prahaps this time the 'babies in incubators' will be how SH is committing war crimes by executing prisoners................

    Or how SH has tonnes of WMD.............

    Or how the Iraqis will rise up and overthrow SH (even though we let them get slaughtered last time a Bush asked them to try)......................
    <

    your gonna eat those words.

    i guess hes never commited a war crime or violated the geneva convention before? why would he adhear now? you tell me.

    yeah i'm angry as hell we obeyed the U.N.'s cease fire and let Saddam slaughter them.

    oh wait, what did saddam use to kill them?
    WMD's? no way, he used spit wads. and hes all out of them.


    >Whats your favorite?

    Saddams Information Minister is being 100% honest, or or how bout Saddam just lost a couple hundred tons of chemical weapons, and then forgot to put that in his deposition to the U.N.

    >As I said before I will wait before jumping to conclusions.

    i'm not, my conclusions are quite reasonable, a half a dozen "Captured" soldiers don't just accidently get shot in the face.

    > I could be wrong but at least I am keeping an open mind.

    no your not, you are predisposed that the U.S. is wrong and that Saddam is an innocent victim and a complete angel.

    >
    Sorry my mistake. I was taught that facts were verifiable, repeatable and independent. Not malleable or discardable due to requirements.
    <

    its not my job to inform you of the facts of the subject being argued, i told you i saw it watching TV, you can't accept it, it's your fault, start watching TV, and guess what, problem solved.

    I don't have time to dance for your amusement, find another less intelligent monkey.

    >You become personal (and derogatory) at the first hint of any comment that does not praise the US to the rafters.

    I only become derogatory at willful ignorance, which you accel at.

    >You refuse to back up you rhetoric with anything verifiable, repeatable or independent.

    I guess Iraq has let "independants" investigate the situation, or even see their POW's, and im the one jumping to conclusions?

    >So why should I bother to listen?

    thats your job to figure out, i am not your sycologist, you dont deny the fact you hate the U.S.(you won't say why) you give a mass murdering animal the benefit of the doubt, so your already Biased, i on the other hand at least try to remain objective.
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  4. #139
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    Originally posted by no-one
    A whole bunch of stuff
    No fair, dude. You said you were leaving.

  5. #140
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    oh, crap your right, i guess my last post is illegal or disqualified or something... darnit.
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  6. #141
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    i dont understand why people are saying fair rights for those prisoners when WE dont even have fair rights. i love how everyones heart bleeds for those detainees yet overlooks whats going on in our own country.
    guns dont kill people, abortion clinics kill people.

  7. #142
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    Originally posted by dP munky
    i dont understand why people are saying fair rights for those prisoners when WE dont even have fair rights. i love how everyones heart bleeds for those detainees yet overlooks whats going on in our own country.
    Been locked up without due process lately?

    I'm not saying anything for or against the guys at X-Ray, but comparing yourself to them is a little shallow, to say the least.

  8. #143
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    >>Been locked up without due process lately?
    im not supposed to talk about it

    >>I'm not saying anything for or against the guys at X-Ray, but comparing yourself to them is a little shallow, to say the least.
    how so? theyre suspected terrorists, im a law abiding american citizen, why should i recieve the same treatment as them? they dont have constitutional rights, i do.
    guns dont kill people, abortion clinics kill people.

  9. #144
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    I'm being serious. Have you been locked up without due process? Then by all means, press charges. I hope the bastards that did that go away for a long time.

    Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

  10. #145
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    seriously, no, i havent been locked up w/o due process, but you can be legaly, and you can sue til youre heart is contnet but wont get a damn thing, im not blowing smoke, im only trying to wake people up! since sept. 11 we've ........ed away so many of our civil rights it obsurd i dont wanna post the link again because i have in like 4 other threads but its all legal (u.s. patriot act of 2001)
    guns dont kill people, abortion clinics kill people.

  11. #146
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    Is that true? I mean, in the US you can just be incarcerated, without charge, for as long as the government wishes? Do they need sufficient evidence or is it just 'on a hunch'? Man, that sucks. Don't you all think that's a bit overboard?

  12. #147
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    Sorry dp - my head wasn't on straight.

    > Don't you all think that's a bit overboard?

    It's "needed" to protect the country from terror attacks. And it doesn't really matter what we think, as we're not members of Congress.

    I can't remember ever hearing of that clause being enforced, though.

  13. #148
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    >we've ........ed away so many of our civil rights it obsurd i dont wanna post the link again because i have in like 4 other threads but its all legal (u.s. patriot act of 2001)
    <

    yeah i'm gonna have to agree here, i haven't heard enough to argue on this subject, but what i've heard about the "Patriot" Act does not make me happy.

    >Is that true? I mean, in the US you can just be incarcerated, without charge, for as long as the government wishes? Do they need sufficient evidence or is it just 'on a hunch'? Man, that sucks. Don't you all think that's a bit overboard?
    <

    unfortunatly know the mechanics of it, i havn't had the time to research it, and if what i hear is true it is overboard in some areas.

    >And it doesn't really matter what we think, as we're not members of Congress.

    it's so sad that this is becomming more and more true.
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  14. #149
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    im not sure if you can find it on the net, (kazza, imesh) but the daily show had a spoof about the whole patriot act and america 'the police state' it told the story pretty well i thought
    guns dont kill people, abortion clinics kill people.

  15. #150
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    >>theyre suspected terrorists, im a law abiding american citizen

    Most of the guys in Camp X_Ray are Taliban fighters. Not terrorists, Afghani pesants who joined the military (as it provided the best pay / conditions)
    Many, like the 18 that were just released are Afghani farmers pressed into service against thier will when the war started.
    If the US had ANY evidence that they were responsible for terrorism don't you think they would have been made an example of by now?

    Not one has been charged with any crime after 18 months.

    Just because you make up a new catagory, 'illegal combatant' to call them does not absove the US of the obligation to provide them with basic human rights.

    If you deny them basic human rights or those due under the Geneva convention, how can the US complain when other countries treat your citizens with the same contempt?

    >>u.s. patriot act of 2001
    The Geneva convention states you can't make up a new law and charge prisoners with it.

    >>and i quote "i hear Blair himself confirmed it" i missed it myself

    I saw it live. Prahaps you should take your own advice.

    It was in the press conference with GWB and Blair in Camp David. Blair mentioned the word execute ONCE.
    He was asked a follow up question about it later and dodged the reply.

    The link to the news report I posted is from a few days AFTER Blair stated that British troops had been executed.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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