I wonder what will happen in Israel

This is a discussion on I wonder what will happen in Israel within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; you don't know what's happened there, neither me, you cannot prove nothing with these pictures. I cannot judge the guy, ...

  1. #31
    Registered User Vber's Avatar
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    you don't know what's happened there, neither me, you cannot prove nothing with these pictures. I cannot judge the guy, I don't know what really happened there, neither YOU don't know.

  2. #32
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > I don't know what really happened there, neither YOU don't know.

    Alright then - I'll stop saying I know when you stop saying that you do.

  3. #33
    Registered User Vber's Avatar
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    Well, we don't know, so this won't take us to any place, until you prove me what's really happened there, cuz I can't prove you anything.

  4. #34
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    as a follow-up to the solution thread ...

    The palestinians want an independent state, so be it. Current borders should be freezed and made an international border. And till such time as things return to normal, the border should be monitored by the International Peace Keeping Force.

  5. #35
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    Ok Indian_Fan, maybe your solution would work, but we tried it once, with Ehud Barak, a previous primer minister, we gave important places, and the palestines told they will stop the terror, they received their terrains, but they didn't stopped the terrorism, and this is true (and sad...).

    Maybe just like you said, if the territorie would be monitored by International Peace Keeping Force, this could be a little bit better, I don't think they will accept this.

  6. #36
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    >>> they received their terrains, but they didn't stopped the terrorism, and this is true (and sad...).

    If memory serves, it also didn't stop the Israeli's in those areas continuing to illegally expand their townships.

    >>> Current borders should be freezed and made an international border.

    I doubt the Jordanians and in particular the Syrians could accept that. Why should Syria for example, give away the strategically important Golan Heights, which basically overlook Damascus, their capital, to anyone?

    I think the current "borders" with "Palestine" split between the West Bank and Gaza are impractical as well.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  7. #37
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    >>If memory serves, it also didn't stop the Israeli's in those areas continuing to illegally expand their townships.

    Could you please tell me where currently is israel working in expanding their area illegally, well, I live here and I don't know any info about this.

  8. #38
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    I wasn't talking about expanding their border. What I was refering to was the expansion of Jewish settlements on the West bank, (Jordan).
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  9. #39
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    Well, what you're talking is correct, but this don't happen anymore today, the governament here don't support this anymore, and this was the most important cause to the break of the previous governament, because the previo's one, supported those collonys, the new one, don't give them money and removed all the soldiers from those places.
    Last edited by Vber; 03-19-2003 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #40
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    I personally think a Palestinian state should be made, but I am not as educated about the History of pre and post Palestine.

    Something none of you realize is that for the most part Palestinian and Israeli versions of events are completely different. They were educated differently. That's a big reason why I didn't want any biases entered into this thread. One of my friends, Rachel Culley, wrote this article about her experience at seeds of peace where she worked with both Palestinians and Israelis:
    http://www.mideastweb.org/sop.htm

  11. #41
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    Well Silvercord, your friend Rachel wrote a lot of right things, but this happens when this isn't in israel or palestine.

    So what, I lived 12 years in brazil and there I lived with A LOT of arabs, and they were like brother's to me, damn they were good friends. Here in Israel you won't find any arab that want to be your friend, well, actually I have an Palestine friend, Sahid, he is a good guy and with this people we don't have problem, and he live's in our territory, but if now we wanted to live in their territory it's impossible, they would kill you.

    I understand your point, and I can understand perfectly your idea, you want an Palestinian state in Israel, it's ok, this won't happen never, be sure, and I think it's a little sad, but this wont happen, Israel won't give her territory without any war.

    My mind changed when I came into Israel, things change's, I saw from close what's really happens here, in Brazil I didn't know this. When I came here it took 3 days to see my first terrorist attack and 1 month to be in a terrorist attack (I was lucky, I was just 1 day in hospital), I'm sure that after this happens to you, automatically you change your opinion.

    The Israelis and Arabs that lives here NEVER will join in peace, they from 67 are in war, always had terrorists attacks.

    I can't see how a Palestinian state can help, because they want Jerusalem as their capital, and this will never ever happens, for sure.

    I don't say what Israel do is correct, neither what Palestine doe's. Check out in stats how many palestine we killed (something like 75% were terrorists or leaders of islamic groups). And checkout how many citizens they killed (something like 32% were soldiers). Even the primer minister here don't see any way to solve this problem, the only one is WAR. This words are from the primer minister. They tell the same, Hamas, Jihad, Tanzim, same thing they want war.

    So why they are covards and attack civilians? why they don't try to attack IDF?

    About Rachel Culley, well she have's experience working with arabs and israelis that aren't right now living this war... she haven't more experience than me, or any israeli that live here right now.

  12. #42
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    Ohh by the way, before 35 mins an Israeli citizen were killed by a terrorist...

  13. #43
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    well I dont' know what to say right now, this thread was supposed to be speculation as to what might happen in Israel. About the Palestinian state, I agree with you; the Palestinians won't ever be happy because they truly will not get Jerusalem, period. So even if we created a Palestinian state the terrorist attacks would not end. One thing Rachel has that you don't is first hand talks with both Palestinians and Israelis (and not just a few, she's spoken with a lot of them). You said it yourself; they would likely kill you. That seems like such a rare thing, talking with both Palestinians and Israelis in the same room, and surprisingly they both had different accounts of the same events in History.

    On a different note, I'm sorry about your injuries, I really am. I don't wish violence upon anyone, that's why I want a solution to the problems in Israel. I think ultimately both sides have suffered greatly. The suffering is so great it is a moot point to argue which side has suffered worse. How bad were your injuries, and how did it take place (where were you when it happened?)

  14. #44
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    How bad were your injuries, and how did it take place (where were you when it happened?)
    Well, it was just my second time in Jerusalem, it was the "Sbarro suicide attack" it was in August 9, 2001, 15 people killed, 7 of them were childrens, from age 2 until 16-17. One Brazilian and one american were killed too. I was walking with my brother at the side of the Sbarro Pizzaria, when this happened, I didn't injurie so bad, broken parts of the window from the Pizzaria fell on my face, the doctor said I was lucky, it didn't fall in my eyes. My brother didn't injurie too much. A lady that was near us died in the way of the hospital Frieda Mendelsohn.

    It wasn't a good experience for me, but's ok, now I'm better, and thank you for asking
    Last edited by Vber; 03-19-2003 at 10:35 AM.

  15. #45
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    It wasn't a good experience for me, but's ok, now I'm better, and thank you for asking
    Well, that seems like quite an understatement; I would probably be nothing short of paranoid/shocked/completely freaked out. I'm glad you are ok. I'm sad for those that were killed. I don't think violence is a way to solve anything, but on the other hand I doubt I would have any pacifistic feelings if my family or a friend was killed by someone else. Cripes, problems with people are so difficult to solve. You can't really rationalize with either side of a conflict like this, because they both hate each other so much. Did anyone watch the True Life on MTV the other day? They followed around Israeli soldiers as well as Palestinian civilians. The scary part is when you get right down to it they both just wanted to not live in fear and go on with their lives; things I hope they all get someday.


    EDIT:
    Do you guys think the Palestinians should have been kicked out in the first place? The following facts are true:
    1) The Jews were living in the area of Israel before the Palestinians (this was in ancient times). They were kicked out by the Romans.
    2) The Jews have always been a persecuted people, with the Holocaust and being kicked out by the Romans and countless other violations.

    Keeping those two things in mind, did that warrant kicking out the Palestinians?
    Last edited by Silvercord; 03-19-2003 at 12:39 PM.

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