Integration problems

This is a discussion on Integration problems within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by Imperito RoD, I don't know where you come from, but in my travels and dealings in Miami, ...

  1. #16
    RoD
    RoD is offline
    Redundantly Redundant RoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    6,331
    Originally posted by Imperito
    RoD, I don't know where you come from, but in my travels and dealings in Miami, Florida I can say with some confidence that a great many "asylum seekers" enter this country illegally. I've never been to texas but my understanding is that it is a problem there too.
    NJ; not a problem like they are talking though, we have some yes but a minor percentage in comparison.

  2. #17
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,301
    We don't really notice it as much in NJ because all the 50 mexicans in my town live in the same one room apartment.

  3. #18
    Just a Member ammar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    953

    Re: Integration problems

    Originally posted by Shiro
    A lot of people fly from their country to other countries and are asking for asylum in the country they fled to. In the Netherlands there are thousands of such people, they came from other parts of Europe, mainly eastern-Europe, from Africa and all kind of other places.

    Every city in the Netherlands and a lot of villages have a so called AZC (Asiel Zoeker Centrum) where people who are waiting for asylum being granted or not. Those people usually don't speak Dutch and often speak English badly. So it is very hard for them and for us to integrate them in the Dutch society.

    Also in the city where I live we have a few hundreds of those people, I have no problem with them, I understand they fled because of war or hunger or other things and they can find a safe place here.

    But the number of people who don't like those people staying here is growing, mainly because

    1. It costs a lot of money, those people need food, money, clothes and a house.
    2. Those people often don't speak a language we know.
    3. Those people usually find it hard to accept our way of living and culture, especially if they are from an country where Islam is the main religion.
    4. The number of those people is still growing.

    I can understand it, the Dutch also have their own problems, but in my opinion we must help those people as good as we can.

    Do you in your countries also have such problems?
    >>1. It costs a lot of money, those people need food, money, clothes and a house.
    I agree with you Shiro, people like this should work in order to earn their living...
    >>2. Those people often don't speak a language we know.
    That's a problem... If they don't speak the language they should not stay...
    >>3. Those people usually find it hard to accept our way of living and culture, especially if they are from an country where Islam is the main religion.
    That's their problem... If they don't accept it as it is they should leave...
    Countries should only accept immigrant who can work in the country and don't have any problems accepting the way of life in that country...
    none...

  4. #19
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,831
    >>>
    >>2. Those people often don't speak a language we know.
    That's a problem... If they don't speak the language they should not stay...
    <<<

    ... and go where? A good number of our "guests" speak their own Somali dialect, outside of Somalia, there is nowhere, so, where?

    >>>
    Countries should only accept immigrant who can work in the country and don't have any problems accepting the way of life in that country...
    <<<

    What happens to all the others?
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  5. #20
    ....
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Groningen (NL)
    Posts
    2,386
    >I do have a problem with imigrants that act like it is their
    >country. Some guy wanted to put the pollice under his own
    >survailance. He even proposed that Arabic should be an official
    >Belgian language.

    Yes, that is a problem we also have in the Netherlands. A lot of immigrants don't have problems adapting their way of live so that it makes it easier for them to live with us and for us to live with them. But there is small group, mainly people with an Arabic background, who wants to keep their own way of living. No problem with that, but they are telling us that we are doing wrong and that is a problem.

    >I'm sorry, but if that happens, I'm moving to Holland

    Well, if I have read the papers well, we have the same problems as you. That Arabic organisation which tries to controll your police wants to set up a Dutch branch.

    >>>1. It costs a lot of money, those people need food, money,
    >>clothes and a house.
    >I agree with you Shiro, people like this should work in order to
    >earn their living...

    I partly agree, but:

    For some reasons our government doesn't allow them to work, because of all kinds of laws and rules. A lot of them can and want to do work, but they are simply not allowed to.

    And a lot of them are children. Not just a little part, but a big part. A big problem are the so-called AMA's (Alleenstaande Minderjarige Asielzoeker), that are children younger than 18 who came to this country without parents or someone else to take care of them.

    >>2. Those people often don't speak a language we know.
    >That's a problem... If they don't speak the language they should
    >not stay...

    As adrianxw said, where should they go? We can send them to the countries around like Germany or Belgium, but they don't speak those languages too. In fact a lot of them are from countries of the third world, they don't speak European local languages. You can't expect someone who fled from Mali or Ethiopia to be able to speak Dutch when he/she gets here. In fact, I think most of you would not be able to. English is a world-language, but a lot of them have a poor mastering of it.

    >>3. Those people usually find it hard to accept our way of living
    >>and culture, especially if they are from an country where Islam
    >>is the main religion.
    >That's their problem... If they don't accept it as it is they should
    >leave...

    I don't agree. Yes, they have to accept our way of living, but we also have to respect their way of living. A lot of refugees try to adapt to live more easily in our country, but it is hard. Especially since they don't master our language.

    >>Countries should only accept immigrant who can work in the
    >>country and don't have any problems accepting the way of life
    >>in that country...

    Note that I'm not talking about immigrants, but about refugees. People who fled from their country to find a safe place.

    I think, when the war in Iraq will start, thousands of people from Kurdistan and Iraq will fly to Europe. I'm really wondering if those countries who want to attack Iraq are realizing what huge problems this will give.
    Last edited by Shiro; 01-13-2003 at 12:14 PM.

  6. #21
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    669
    America has Many Many refugees and illegals, anyone coming from CUBA is granted immediate residency. Fortunately, the US is sooo big we don't feel much and in fact many foreingers have created there own communities like china town or korean town. Most seem to blend in quite nicely and others create their communities in areas where the economy has never been good - so I feel that they bring new life to those areas. For Mexicans here in Cali there is like a mass migration to KANSAS which is smack dab in the middle of the country - usually most ppl go west when they migrate. There is a downside also, they often settle in poor areas and adopt the harsh ways of the inner city gangs - in America if u r born here u are considered a US citizen so we have illegal mexicans who have 5 or 6 kids all become citizens but they live in sqwualer and in bad neighborhoods and become gang members.

    The biggest complaint is that foreigners take American Jobs, I'm sure it's the same argument across europe - however, I think many more jobs are lost to GLOBALIZATION in where American companies have packed up and left to exploit cheaper labor in a 3rd world country.

    America has a strange effect also that I see, anyone who comes here from anywhere actually transforms into an american. They dress and even speak like americans - I saw a show where we accepted some SUDAN men (the Lost boys) who were rail thin and didn't speak much english - they were incredibly dark skinned and just looked AKWARD if u were an American. After 1-year they all dressed like a normal American would, they put on weight, they spoke almost perfect english but still with an accent, and their skin actually became lighter - that's strange.
    My Avatar says: "Stay in School"

    Rocco is the Boy!
    "SHUT YOUR LIPS..."

  7. #22
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    669
    >>I think, when the war in Iraq will start, thousands of people from Kurdistan and Iraq will fly to Europe. I'm really wondering if those countries who want to attack Iraq are realizing what huge problems this will give

    Actually, the KURDS in the North have a thoroughly modern society up there. They are actually building a metropolis with high rise buildings, paved roads and everything else. They live a FREE and prosperuous life due to the NO FLY ZONES maintained by the US & UK. I would argue that they live much better than IRAQI's.

    Most IRAQI defectors and refugees will return to IRAQ, if u ask them they are begging the US to remove SADDAM so they can go back, so the sanctions can be lifted, so we can FINALLY END the WAR.
    Last edited by OneStiffRod; 01-13-2003 at 12:57 PM.
    My Avatar says: "Stay in School"

    Rocco is the Boy!
    "SHUT YOUR LIPS..."

  8. #23
    Just a Member ammar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    953
    Originally posted by adrianxw
    >>>
    >>2. Those people often don't speak a language we know.
    That's a problem... If they don't speak the language they should not stay...
    <<<

    ... and go where? A good number of our "guests" speak their own Somali dialect, outside of Somalia, there is nowhere, so, where?

    >>>
    Countries should only accept immigrant who can work in the country and don't have any problems accepting the way of life in that country...
    <<<

    What happens to all the others?
    Countries should not be responsible to everyone...
    Each country should be responsible for it's people... Then they might help others...
    Maybe immigrants should be given an chance to lean the language for a while and them start working, because if a country has given some one a safe place to live in... He should pay back to that country...
    none...

  9. #24
    ¡Amo fútbol!
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,136
    Personally, I don't believe in National Religions or Languages. Just use whatever most people use.

    BTW, for all the Americans here, by 2010/2012 or something like that, Spanish will be the most commonly used language in America

  10. #25
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Phildelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,146
    Where's the calculus? I wanted calculus You got my hopes up
    FAQ

    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

  11. #26
    train spotter
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    near a computer
    Posts
    3,859
    In 2002 Australia had over 120,000 'asylum seekers' (for a population of <20million). In 2001 it was around 20,000.

    Mainly arriving on boats organised by professional smugglers and departing from Indonesia. These boats are unseaworth, overloaded and regularly sink.

    Most are from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Many however are from other countries seeking a better lifestyle (who can blame them? thats why I'm in Australia).

    The last election here was 'stolen' on a miss represented report that asylum seekers on a boat threw their children overboard to avoid being returned to Indonesia.

    The governement claims certain islands as Australian Terrirory for fishing ect but then had to change the law so organised people smugglers could not use these tiny islands as drop off points (the asylum seekers land on a rock in the ocean and are then allowed to apply for Australian resisdency)

    It takes our immigration service up to two years to process an application. This is due to the number of appeals granted ect. This delay seems to be a tactic to discourage other asylum seekers.

    The government even offers a cash bonus to return home (mainly to Afghaniis).

    We have now changed the laws so that when you leave your country, the first country you reach must be the one you apply for asylum from.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  12. #27
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,831
    >>> Each country should be responsible for it's people...

    Noble sentiment, but what happens when they are not?

    >>> Maybe immigrants

    We are not talking about legal immigrants here, we are talking about refugees and asylum seekers who have fled their home, and for whatever reason, feel they cannot return to their home country.

    >>>
    should be given an chance to lean the language for a while and them start working, because if a country has given some one a safe place to live in... He should pay back to that country...
    <<<

    This is the area where the right wingers criticise. You see, that is exactly what happens here. It costs a fortune to house and feed these people, they are taught the language and trained, and then, if their asylum bid is accepted, they then compete for jobs against our own people. We, like many places, do have a rising unemployment problem.

    The argument is, to "pay back" his host for granting him a safe shelter - he should go home when it is reckoned to be safe to do so. The problem then is, they like what they see here, and don't want ot go back.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  13. #28
    Funniest man in this seat minesweeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    801
    >>We have now changed the laws so that when you leave your country, the first country you reach must be the one you apply for asylum from.<<

    We have that too, but it's wholly unworkable here in Europe.

  14. #29
    Just a Member ammar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    953
    Originally posted by adrianxw
    >>> Each country should be responsible for it's people...

    Noble sentiment, but what happens when they are not?

    >>> Maybe immigrants

    We are not talking about legal immigrants here, we are talking about refugees and asylum seekers who have fled their home, and for whatever reason, feel they cannot return to their home country.

    >>>
    should be given an chance to lean the language for a while and them start working, because if a country has given some one a safe place to live in... He should pay back to that country...
    <<<

    This is the area where the right wingers criticise. You see, that is exactly what happens here. It costs a fortune to house and feed these people, they are taught the language and trained, and then, if their asylum bid is accepted, they then compete for jobs against our own people. We, like many places, do have a rising unemployment problem.

    The argument is, to "pay back" his host for granting him a safe shelter - he should go home when it is reckoned to be safe to do so. The problem then is, they like what they see here, and don't want ot go back.
    I'ld like to add that some countries need immigrant( educated and trained ) because they don't have a big population...
    none...

  15. #30
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,831
    >>> I'ld like to add that some countries need immigrant( educated and trained ) because they don't have a big population...

    Again, I think you're talking about a very different case. Often the refugees/asylum seekers are relatively poorly educted. They are unable to "walk into a job" here.

    Asylum seekers with good skills still have to overcome a language problem - if they don't speak Danish, then they will have problems finding a job in all but a few specific areas where the "business" is by it's nature, international and hence tends to work in English.

    Even very highly skilled foreign doctors with no Danish but perfect English, for example, will not be directly employable, because their prospective patients might not speak English well or even at all.

    >>> don't have a big population...

    We don't. About 5.5 million.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. No clue how to make a code to solve problems!
    By ctnzn in forum C Programming
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-16-2008, 02:59 AM
  2. C Pointers Problems
    By mhelal in forum C Programming
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-10-2007, 05:35 AM
  3. String Manipulation problems -_-
    By Astra in forum C Programming
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-13-2006, 04:48 PM
  4. Rendering problems (DirectX?)
    By OnionKnight in forum Tech Board
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-17-2006, 12:17 PM
  5. contest problems on my site
    By DavidP in forum Contests Board
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-10-2004, 08:19 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21