Follow Iraq, North Korea trying to mess the World.

This is a discussion on Follow Iraq, North Korea trying to mess the World. within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >>> separate American Media Propaganda from American Media telling the American Public the facts. <<< What can I say? Errm, ...

  1. #61
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    >>>
    separate American Media Propaganda from American Media telling the American Public the facts.
    <<<

    What can I say? Errm, oh yes, I said...

    >>>
    Every "side" has a group of people who's job in life is to produce "facts" that show that whatever their "side" is saying is right, and that the precipitated actions are justified.
    <<<

    ... fact is a sadly abused word.

    If you read my posts carefully, I was trying to get Zeesham, (who is not an idiot), to look at the reality of the Iraq situation, (it was me that bought up the Kurd and marsh arab issues after all - go back and look), and tried to cut through the propaganda crap.

    >>>
    Everytime I post on this topic I seem to be repeating myselfs and the others on this topic.
    <<<

    The other Americans.

    >>> Please bring something new to the table

    What is the point, you are not receptive to anything "new".

    >>> or let it die.

    Hey, at least I tried.
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  2. #62
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
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    North Korea has just ONE intention, to BRIBE the US into a BETTER deal - this is why they BROKE the first agreement - this president and the majority of the american ppl will not BEND to North Korea this time as we did in the past. North Korea continues to head down the wrong path to turn up the HEAT to get this NEW BETTER DEAL that the US WILL NOT make. It will take China or Russia or a group of other countries to come to North Korea and BRIBE it with OIL or what have you. The US will NOT be BRIBED again - and if that means WAR then so be it. North Korea is the ONE making the BAD CHOICES here, I don't know why IDIOTS are blaming the US.

    If North Korea uses Nukes FIRST the US will respond with Tactical Nukes - these are much smaller munitions than the ICBM's u ppl may be thinking of. We are not PUSSIES here in america and there is one lesson for EVERYONE, when we are attacked or threatened we BOMB, we kick ass, we have not and never will WRITE A LETTER saying, "PLZ DONT HURT ASS BAD MEN". IF U CHALLENGE US WE HAVE ONE PREDICTABLE RESPONSE - WAR & SANCTIONS.
    ------------------------------------------------
    >>When has IRAQ invited or attacked you.
    KUWAIT invited us in after it was attacked by IRAQ - SAUDI ARABIA invited us after the invasion of Kuwait by IRAQ.
    We have been there spending the MONEY and RISKING the men and pilots to enforce the UN SANCTIONS for 11+ years and we are tired of it since we are now being blamed for IRAQ's troubles when it is SADDAM - we want an end to the sanctions too but that cannot happen until SADDAM complies or is removed, dumbasses.

    ALL of u are MORONS who beleive that these are US SANCTIONS - they are UN SANCTIONS and there are 5 major UN members with a VETO to anything the UN does, they are ... US, UK, RUSSIA, FRANCE, CHINA.

    The funny thing is that here in America there is a growing HATRED for the UN as it is often Anti-American. However, it is the US who leads in enforcing UN policy, RUSSIA or CHINA has not ever clamored to enforce a UN mandate - FRENCH AND UK are too cautious unless the US is out front leading the way, bearing the brunt of the cost.

    >> who are u calling jealous of the US
    I'm calling anyone who criticizes the US, you should be criticizing your own govts. for doing NOTHING. If you dont like the way the US handles things - it's perfectly fine with us if u go over and do something about it yourselves - but u won't b/c your only good at WHINING and being ARROGANT, and PROTESTING. You have no SOLUTIONS to anything and are therefore WORTHLESS.


    WE are the ONLY country calling for a real solution to the problems in this world. U are the ones who want to FORGET about IRAQ and it's ppl, U are the ones who woulda just had us hold diplomatic talks over Afghanistan and NOT liberate it as we did, which the ppl are greatful for. U are the ones who want to allow the entire ASIAN Theatre to become a NUCLEAR ARMS FACTORY by allowing North Korea to get away with it's UNACCEPTABLE behavior. We are RIGHT and u are WRONG. Thank you.
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  3. #63
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    >We are RIGHT and u are WRONG.
    Thats the kind of moral absolutism that is most dangerous in this world
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  4. #64
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    If North Korea uses Nukes FIRST the US will respond with Tactical Nukes - these are much smaller munitions than the ICBM's u ppl may be thinking of.
    Yes, the first responce must be to knock out NK's missle sites.
    But how can you blame the people if the people are not
    in charge? So I would expect some amount of time, maybe
    48 hours, for them to bring their president and top officials to justice. If the people stand up for themselves then they will have learned. However if they don't stand up then they will never have peace. We must then conquer them and give them peace.

  5. #65
    fry
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    I'm calling anyone who criticizes the US, you should be criticizing your own govts. for doing NOTHING.
    In Australia, the governments policy seems to be to agree to everything America says, and do whatever they ask of us. Often we get involved in things that have nothing at all to do with us.

    As far as the general Australian population goes, most people are against the governments plans to follow the US into everything (which is what they are doing).

    The funny thing is that here in America there is a growing HATRED for the UN as it is often Anti-American.
    Which is why the UN exists. Generally to have an agreement between all people, not jsut whatever the UN wants. Eventually, everyone will have something that they didn't want the UN to do, but this is why it exists. Calling the UN anit-American is just showing your arrogance yet again, and stating that American is the "only right way", as many have already said.
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  6. #66
    Climber spoon_'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by OneStiffRod
    North Korea has just ONE intention, to BRIBE the US into a BETTER deal - this is why they BROKE the first agreement - this president and the majority of the american ppl will not BEND to North Korea this time as we did in the past. North Korea continues to head down the wrong path to turn up the HEAT to get this NEW BETTER DEAL that the US WILL NOT make. It will take China or Russia or a group of other countries to come to North Korea and BRIBE it with OIL or what have you. The US will NOT be BRIBED again - and if that means WAR then so be it. North Korea is the ONE making the BAD CHOICES here, I don't know why IDIOTS are blaming the US.

    If North Korea uses Nukes FIRST the US will respond with Tactical Nukes - these are much smaller munitions than the ICBM's u ppl may be thinking of. We are not PUSSIES here in america and there is one lesson for EVERYONE, when we are attacked or threatened we BOMB, we kick ass, we have not and never will WRITE A LETTER saying, "PLZ DONT HURT ASS BAD MEN". IF U CHALLENGE US WE HAVE ONE PREDICTABLE RESPONSE - WAR & SANCTIONS.
    ------------------------------------------------
    >>When has IRAQ invited or attacked you.
    KUWAIT invited us in after it was attacked by IRAQ - SAUDI ARABIA invited us after the invasion of Kuwait by IRAQ.
    We have been there spending the MONEY and RISKING the men and pilots to enforce the UN SANCTIONS for 11+ years and we are tired of it since we are now being blamed for IRAQ's troubles when it is SADDAM - we want an end to the sanctions too but that cannot happen until SADDAM complies or is removed, dumbasses.

    ALL of u are MORONS who beleive that these are US SANCTIONS - they are UN SANCTIONS and there are 5 major UN members with a VETO to anything the UN does, they are ... US, UK, RUSSIA, FRANCE, CHINA.

    The funny thing is that here in America there is a growing HATRED for the UN as it is often Anti-American. However, it is the US who leads in enforcing UN policy, RUSSIA or CHINA has not ever clamored to enforce a UN mandate - FRENCH AND UK are too cautious unless the US is out front leading the way, bearing the brunt of the cost.

    >> who are u calling jealous of the US
    I'm calling anyone who criticizes the US, you should be criticizing your own govts. for doing NOTHING. If you dont like the way the US handles things - it's perfectly fine with us if u go over and do something about it yourselves - but u won't b/c your only good at WHINING and being ARROGANT, and PROTESTING. You have no SOLUTIONS to anything and are therefore WORTHLESS.


    WE are the ONLY country calling for a real solution to the problems in this world. U are the ones who want to FORGET about IRAQ and it's ppl, U are the ones who woulda just had us hold diplomatic talks over Afghanistan and NOT liberate it as we did, which the ppl are greatful for. U are the ones who want to allow the entire ASIAN Theatre to become a NUCLEAR ARMS FACTORY by allowing North Korea to get away with it's UNACCEPTABLE behavior. We are RIGHT and u are WRONG. Thank you.

    OneStiffRod is the man.

    = )


    Anyone see the Road to Baghdad on NBC? Actual IRAQI citizens talking about Saddam. Guess what, secretly, they told the reporter they didn't like him and the streets would be filled with joy if he was taken out. But publicly in the interviews, an iraqi government offical was with them at all times. This means that if the iraqi citizen were to critisize Saddam, they'd be in deep ****.

    Want anymore reasons why we should kill the bastard?

    FACTUAL INFORMATION from Iraqi citizens.

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  7. #67
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    I just watched a segment on CNN about North Korea and it's sad the state that country is in. The regime there spends more on military than they do on food and their people are starving to death at a high rate. The dictator uses myth-type information about his past(birth-place) to seem holier-than-thou to his people. They said he has women for him that he calls his 'pleasure-squad'.......
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  8. #68
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    I agree Sadam is a thug. But he is no different to many thugs leading countries. Why is he singled out for special attention?

    The US is saying that, FOR A FACT, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. The UNSCOM inspectors can't find them. So why does the US not share these facts with the UN inspectors?

    Here is some facts, I think you might have missed out on;

    'The United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programmes.'

    http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/r_1_2.html

    This is a US government senate report, so if it is propaganda it is US made.


    Notice a few dates;
    The Iraqi attack on the Kurdish town, Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988.

    If this was so bad why did the US (GWB snr was president) not stop supplying Iraq with chemical weapons then?

    Check the items shipped on September 29, 1988.

    >>Edit

    a list of what some of these biological agents do to you.

    Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
    Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
    Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord and heart.
    Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
    Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
    Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic.

    End Edit<<

    Also note that chemical and nuclear production can be detected in the atmosphere using current technology. Why do we not have definitive proof?





    Spoon

    >>ELEVEN YEARS of U.N. violation. You just don't understand, you violate the U.N., you violate the countries that have signed this treaty.

    Of course the US would never supply aid to a country already in volation of a UN security council resolution.
    OH wait what about SCR 242 and 338? They have only been around for 35 years! When is the US going to stop supplying billions (more than its neigbouring countries GDP combined) in military aid to the worlds 16th richests country, Israel?

    >>They should have never sent the inspectors back in after they were kicked out the first time.

    Actually if you talk to the UNSCOM inspectors, Butler or Ritter, you would know that the were withdrawn NOT kicked out. Hours after they left their security system (cameras ect) was used to guide in US bombs in an attack and that Iraq's allegations that they were spying were in fact correct. (according to Scott Ritter UNSCOM and former CIA)

    damonbrinkley
    >>Heck, I never hear about other countries coming to our aid when we have a major disaster

    Actually you are wrong, you should check your facts before posting your uninformed opinion in future.

    For example,
    Australian emergency workers went to the US to help with S11 (one was later murdered in a NY mugging),
    and last years bush fires which meant that they were not quickly available for OUR bushfires,
    we have commanded your blockade of Iraq for the last two years,
    it was a multinational force in Afghanistan, including our SAS.

    Do I need to go on?
    On the other hand, where was the US when we asked help in East Timor?

    OSR
    >>The funny thing is that here in America there is a growing HATRED for the UN as it is often Anti-American.

    You mean it won't agree to what ever the US wants? (or the "UN will be irrelevant" GWB 2002)
    Last edited by novacain; 01-12-2003 at 11:17 PM.
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  9. #69
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
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    Let's talk about the UK's shipment of the "ULTIMATE GUN" to IRAQ, how about that half of the IRAQI planes and air defense systems are FRENCH.

    Every western nation courted IRAQ when IRAN became a menace in the region - everyone now regrets it.

    WE DON'T need to prove that SADDAM has anything it's up to him to prove that he DOESN'T. We know that he had ALL the programs in which we accuse him of and TODAY he has NO explanation for what happened to those programs. Weapons programs just don't disapear - it is up to SADDAM to tell the world what he did with them and show proof that he has ended the R&D programs and all efforts to produce weapons of mass destruction. Saying that U WONT FIND THEM is NOT proof of anything.

    He's done, we are already geared up and GOING, rumor has it on Jan 27.

    And we GLOAT that we will do it ALONE - without anyone's help even the UK's and this is what worries the European nations. They already feel IRRELEVANT, this is evident in their new FURY to get military spending back up.

    The rest of the World wishes they were as BADASS as AMERICA -

    ===
    As far as the UN goes, they are on a very LEFTIST bent - wanting a UNiversal TAX - world court - power over countries military - right to legislate whether a nation can goto war - and the right to determine a nations MIN WAGE.

    The UN WILL BE "IRRELEVENT" when the US stops listening to it's criticizms, stops funding and enforcing it's mandates, and stops participating in it at all but just to keep it's VETO VOTE, in other words be just like RUSSIA or CHINA.

    Are u talking about the same East Timor where the US & Australian Forces went in to restore order?

    Here's a question, why did the UN pull out of SOMALIA?? Only after the US pulled out - if it can do it w/o US why didn't they - they chickened out and today again there is a crisis in that country and they want help but the US refuses to go but that doesn't stop the UK or other UN members from returning, or does it??
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  10. #70
    In The Light
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    howdy,
    OK novacain again you have stated information that would make the US look like war mongers.
    GWB is going to attack Iraq and a lot of us don't really know why. nor do i agree in this case.
    my question to you is, what is the solution, what to do about the perceived presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
    not to mention (and you did mention it) the nasty stuff we have given to Sadam.

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    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  11. #71
    fry
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    The rest of the World wishes they were as BADASS as AMERICA -
    Actually, i hope my country never becomes like that

    The UN WILL BE "IRRELEVENT" when the US stops listening to it's criticizms, stops funding and enforcing it's mandates, and stops participating in it at all
    To an extent, you may be right. But then you are also proving the fact that America doesnt really want to come to an equal conclusion. They would rather leave the UN and control everything by themselves. Nobody else wants the US controlling everything.

    there is a crisis in that country and they want help but the US refuses to go
    And why is it that the US refuses to go? Because it has nothing to gain in that situation? Perhaps it doesn't care so much about the conditions of countries aroudn the world as much as its own dominance and power.
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  12. #72
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    itld>> my question to you is, what is the solution, what to do about the perceived presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?<<

    Find them before you go to war.

    Don't you think it is premature for the US to say we are going to war before the inspectors have even finished reporting?
    Answer is that Iraq can not satisfy the US.
    War is inevitable for Iraq so what incentive does Iraq have to comply?

    itld>>not to mention (and you did mention it) the nasty stuff we have given to Sadam.<<

    My point is the US did not GIVE these weapons of mass destruction to Sadam.
    The US SOLD FOR PROFIT these items and now wants to go to war to get them back.

    Why should Australians (ect) PAY for military action and DIE in Iraq to insure US profits? At least learn from your mistakes.



    From the London Times

    "However, Bush and Blair will also have to prove that Saddam still has chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities. This looks like a difficult case to clinch in view of the fact that Scott Ritter, the UN's former chief weapons inspector in Iraq, says the United Nations destroyed most of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and doubts that Saddam could have rebuilt his stocks by now.

    According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were destroyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during 'the ravages of the Gulf War'.

    Ritter has described himself as a 'card-carrying Republican' who voted for George W Bush. Nevertheless, he has called the president a 'liar' over his claims that Saddam Hussein is a threat to America.

    Ritter has also alleged that the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons emits certain gases, which would have been detected by satellite. 'We have seen none of this,' he insists. 'If Iraq was producing weapons today, we would have definitive proof.'

    He also dismisses claims that Iraq may have a nuclear weapons capacity or be on the verge of attaining one, saying that gamma-particle atomic radiation from the radioactive materials in the warheads would also have been detected by western surveillance."

    As former head of the inspection team in Iraq he should know.



    OSR>>WE DON'T need to prove that SADDAM has anything it's up to him to prove that he DOESN'T.

    LOL!

    How exactly can he prove he does not have WMD?

    Letting in the UNSCOM inspectors?
    I thought we had a innocent until proven guilty system.

    Again if the US has FACTS proving Sadam has these weapons why does UNSCOM not have this info?

    and again OSR
    If the US was so concerned about Iraqs USE of weapons of mass destruction why did the US not stop supplying them AT THE TIME? Or destroy them in Desert Storm or Fox?

    Why wait 15 years to complain?

    Here is some more 'propaganda'. A comparson of the US headlines 'then' and 'now'.

    http://www.fair.org/extra/0210/inspectors.html
    Last edited by novacain; 01-13-2003 at 02:35 AM.
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  13. #73
    UNBANNED OneStiffRod's Avatar
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    Innocent until proven guilty does NOT apply to IRAQ or SADDAM as he fought a war and lost - and signed a document providing that the UN is to be allowed to OVERSEE the elimination of his WMD programs and all material used therein. The SANCTIONS were put in place to be removed upon the verification that IRAQ has eliminated all of it's programs and the UN inspectors will verify there elimination and more importantly IRAQ's steps to eliminate them. SADDAM has NEVER shown any proof that he has dismantled a single thing - and that is the REQUIREMENT of the document HE SIGNED.

    It is not the US, UK, UN job to prove anything - they are simply to OVERSEE and confirm IRAQ's steps it has taken - necessary to be taken spelled out in the document that ended the GULF WAR - that he signed.

    Wasn't it the FRENCH and BRITISH who built SADDAM a nuclear power plant that the Isrealis destroyed?? Who is selling for profit now, maybe you should look at the SUPER GUN that came from britain that was built for SADDAM.

    Scott Ritter is a RIGHT WING WACKO and nobody here has much to do with him, he was fired as an Inspector for being too UNFRIENDLY and ACCUSATORY to the IRAQI's - his BOSS ( an Aussie) calls Scott Ritter a LIAR b/c Scott was up till the final days before he was fired was a hot head who couldn't say enough about what LIARS and CHEATS the IRAQI's were and NOW he has completly changed his tune - probably to sell books.

    The reason we know SADDAM has STUFF is b/c defectors up until 1997 have come forward and said that they worked here, on these programs - WMD programs are being worked on and have never ceased.

    Mark your calendar, Jan. 27th the Inspectors will leave and the US and most likely the UK - it has already sent a carrier - will go in.
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    Sadam and Iraq now have to explain why there are many holes in their report concerning weapons the UN knows they already have. Until those 'missing' weapons are accounted for then IRAQ has to prove it doesn't have any, otherwise the UN will have to prove they do have weapons.
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