First Human clone

This is a discussion on First Human clone within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by vasanth I think it is always the ignorant people creating problems every where... How true. Ironically, those ...

  1. #31
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by vasanth
    I think it is always the ignorant people creating problems every where...
    How true. Ironically, those ignorant people are constantly out to get people smarter than them; thus, scientists who study evolution or cloning are called 'mad scientists', unethical, atheistic, and whatnot. So sad.
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  2. #32
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    im not getting involed in this stupidity except to say two things

    1. TWINS ARE NOT CLONES THEY DO NOT SHARE THE SAME EXACT DNA!

    2. think of the posibilites of cloning? clone you favorite hottie? eh eh!! i can imagine it now!! my own little (insert favorite hot chick here) the sign reads "clone you favorite celebrity for just pennies a day"!

    if no-body else will fund cloning the porn industry and the perverts sure will.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by no-one
    think of the posibilites of cloning? clone you favorite hottie? eh eh!! i can imagine it now!! my own little (insert favorite hot chick here) the sign reads "clone you favorite celebrity for just pennies a day"!

    if no-body else will fund cloning the porn industry and the perverts sure will.
    WTF kind of porn are you into? Cloning produces a baby, you sicko. It'd take around 20 years until a clone would become hot, and by then, her mother will have been forgotten and have lost all appeal. The porn industry is not known for its patience. Instead, they base their business on instant gratification.

    Geez, why don't people realize that cloning does not mean full grown people pop out of machines exactly like their parent ready to kill and destroy? Repeat after me: TV is not real. Movies are not real. It's all just make believe. TV is not real. . .
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    it was a joke, chill.
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    Originally posted by no-one
    it was a joke, chill.
    Sorry. My friends are always telling me that I don't understand when they're just joking around. Once again, sorry.
    FAQ

    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

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    I think it is always the ignorant people creating problems every where...
    True ignorance is too much trust in man.

    not really, a bone marrow doner has no reason to die just
    because s/he donated bone marrow.
    How can you say that creating life just for its bone marrow
    is moral?

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    >True ignorance is too much trust in man.

    and being scared of something as promising as cloning beccause of ignorance is stupid

    >How can you say that creating life just for its bone marrow
    is moral?

    Uhm. That statement implies that the baby will have no use after the marrow is harvested, ie. killed, not loved, given up for adoption, etc. That is completely ridiculous. As I read in an article about cloning, people have all sorts of selfish reasons for having children, the only difference now is that those reasons are brought to the surface. Furthermore, as long as the child is loved just like a non-cloned child, then there is nothing immoral about it.

    Also, how can you justify not doing further research in such a promising field because of a few possible (some extremely unlikely) abuses of the technology?
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    people have all sorts of selfish reasons for having children, the only difference now is that those reasons are brought to the surface.
    This what I meant. Dont trust people. Just because
    a large portion of society thinks some way does not
    make it right. Conversly, what happens
    if a large portion of society thinks it is immoral?
    If this act is going to cause pain, anger and
    distruption of society; this act in itself is immoral. So
    any ethical discussion must involve the possible effects.

    >How can you say that creating life just for its bone marrow
    is moral?

    Uhm. That statement implies that the baby will have no use after the marrow is harvested, ie. killed, not loved, given up for adoption, etc. That is completely ridiculous. As I read in an article about cloning, people have all sorts of selfish reasons for having children, the only difference now is that those reasons are brought to the surface. Furthermore, as long as the child is loved just like a non-cloned child, then there is nothing immoral about it.
    Your are assuming that with the act of cloning there are no killed embroys, no health risk, and certaintly no pain to people
    who disagree with clonning. This enough is to consider
    it immoral. However look at the reasons for cloning. How would you feel as the clone who's bone marrow is used feel? Your only existance is to be physically used. Disgusting.
    Clonning being immoral is further exemplified when you look at the reasons for Rael cloning expierments. Creation
    to hurt the religions of the world. Disgusting. Creation
    out of curiosity. Disgusting. Creation to be god like. Disgusting.

  9. #39
    Senior Member joshdick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nick
    Conversly, what happens
    if a large portion of society thinks it is immoral?
    If this act is going to cause pain, anger and
    distruption of society; this act in itself is immoral. So
    any ethical discussion must involve the possible effects.
    The end of slavery in the U.S. brought pain, anger, and quite a disruption to our society. That doesn't mean that ending slavery was immoral. You've got some pretty bad logic there.


    Your are assuming that with the act of cloning there are no killed embroys, no health risk, and certaintly no pain to people
    who disagree with clonning. This enough is to consider
    it immoral.
    Why would someone clone an embryo and then kill it? That make no sense whatsoever. Yes, we are assuming that cloning could be a good idea if there are no health risks. I also think a cure for cancer would be a good idea if there are no health risks. I hope that scientists work out all of the bugs in cloning. Once they do, I hope that cloning is used to advance medicine.
    However look at the reasons for cloning. How would you feel as the clone who's bone marrow is used feel? Your only existance is to be physically used. Disgusting.
    I'm certainly not suggesting that people be cloned only for their body parts. I was suggesting, however, that a family that was probably going to have more kids anyway should clone a kid, if that meant saving its life. As to the feelings of the clone, he would be a hero to the family, as he would've saved the life of his sibling.
    Clonning being immoral is further exemplified when you look at the reasons for Rael cloning expierments. Creation
    to hurt the religions of the world. Disgusting.
    First of all, that religion isn't trying to hurt anyone. They're just trying to do what their god tells them to do. You know that if the Bible told you to clone, you would. Why do you expect anything different from them?
    Creation out of curiosity. Disgusting. Creation to be god like. Disgusting.
    Curiosity is what fuels innovation, discovery, and science in general. As for creation to be god-like, your assertion that it is disgusting is based soley on your personal beliefs which should have no relevance on public policy or scientific progress. Furthermore, scientists aren't trying to be god-like; they are merely trying to make life better for all of us by increasing the quality and length of life. How is that bad?
    FAQ

    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

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    The end of slavery in the U.S. brought pain, anger, and quite a disruption to our society. That doesn't mean that ending slavery was immoral. You've got some pretty bad logic there.
    Perhaps it was. It might have been better to wait 10 or so
    years and ultimatly educate the south. Other countries abolished
    slavery and did not have to go to war. There is not
    a single western nation today who practices slavery.

    First of all, that religion isn't trying to hurt anyone. They're just trying to do what their god tells them to do. You know that if the Bible told you to clone, you would. Why do you expect anything different from them?
    He's spreading lies about UFO's. He does not believe in God but
    this does not stop him twisting his views. He is alot like Muhammad. He calls moses, Jesus and others "prophets" in order to make is cult more acceptable. He juxtaposes the cloned baby with Jesus. Clearly his only intent is to corrupt.

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    >So any ethical discussion must involve the possible effects

    yes, but one also has to keep things in perspective. Any disruption to society will pass, but the benifits derived from cloning will last forever. There are many instances in history where something initially caused "pain and suffering" to society, yet in the long run the benifits far outweigh any disruption.

    >Your are assuming that with the act of cloning there are no killed embroys, no health risk, and certaintly no pain to people who disagree with clonning

    here your assuming "killing" an embryo is wrong, which is solely based on your religious beliefs (dont try and say it isnt)

    I agree that reproductive cloning shouldnt be done until we can at demonstrate that there are no health risks associated with cloning to the person born. But, a total ban is not the answer.

    "pain to people who disagree with cloning" is a ludacrus requirement for the reasons given by joshdick

    >Your only existance is to be physically used. Disgusting
    Wrong. As long as the child is loved just like any other child, he wouldnt feel "used"

    >Clonning being immoral is further exemplified when you look at the reasons for Rael cloning expierments.

    You cant take a particular case and generalize to all cases (havent you taken discrete mathematics? )

    >Creation to hurt the religions of the world

    What?

    >Creation out of curiosity. Disgusting

    Again, this opinion is fueled by your religious view that human life is somehow special compared to animal life. Most scientists dont believe this therefore they dont see it as 'disgusting' or immoral.

    >Creation to be god like. Disgusting

    Again, this is fueled by your religious belief that God is the only creator of life.
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    >It might have been better to wait 10 or so
    years and ultimatly educate the south

    Tell that to the millions of slaves who are beaten and killed by their masters. Of course, waiting 10 or so years would have caused more pain and suffering to the slaves... so your logic about considering those who will be hurt falls apart.

    >Other countries abolished slavery and did not have to go to war

    Slavery and racist ideas were so imbedded in the southern culture that there was no alternative than forcing them to free the slaves.


    EDIT: (didnt mean to press reply then)

    >He's spreading lies about UFO's. He does not believe in God but
    this does not stop him twisting his views. He is alot like Muhammad. He calls moses, Jesus and others "prophets" in order to make is cult more acceptable. He juxtaposes the cloned baby with Jesus.

    ROFLMAO. And how do you know its a lie? How do yo uknow Muhammed wasnt correct? Why do you think your religion is more "correct" than others'?

    > Clearly his only intent is to corrupt.
    One could say the same thing about Catholic missionaries to go third-world countries and try to convert people to catholicism!
    Last edited by *ClownPimp*; 12-29-2002 at 04:52 PM.
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    Tell that to the millions of slaves who are beaten and killed by their masters. Of course, waiting 10 or so years would have caused more pain and suffering to the slaves... so your logic about considering those who will be hurt falls apart.
    If the south chose freely to abolish slavery we would
    not nearly have the present day problems. It took nearly
    100 years for blacks to have equal rights. Having even
    a few 1000 people beaten close to death is not close to
    the destruction that the war caused. The war was started
    only because the union thought it would be a quick war lasting
    only a few battles.

    ROFLMAO. And how do you know its a lie? How do yo uknow Muhammed wasnt correct? Why do you think your religion is
    more "correct" than others'?
    Wether your christian or aithest, there is enough
    evidence to make the conclusion that there
    was a person named Jesus and that he did claim to be
    the mesiah. A true prophet cannot lie and a false
    prophet is full of them. This has nothing against present
    day muslims. I think God blesses everyone who faithfully
    tries to understand.

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    Originally posted by *ClownPimp*
    >Creation out of curiosity. Disgusting

    Again, this opinion is fueled by your religious view that human life is somehow special compared to animal life. Most scientists dont believe this therefore they dont see it as 'disgusting' or immoral.
    How true. I always think it's funny when people say things like "We're not animals". I always think, 'Well, what the heck are you then, a plant?!' For all of you who are confused as to whether or not you are an animal, here is a basic key out of humans to the level of kingdom:
    Can you see a human with the naked eye? Yes, then, humans are not microscopic bacteria or fungi.
    Do humans eat food or just bask in the sun to get energy. You can sunbathe all you, but you'll still be hungry; hence, humans are not plants.
    That leaves kindom Animalia. Yes, animals! *gasp, horror* Humans are animals—plain and simple.

    Originally posted by Nick
    Your only existance is to be physically used. Disgusting
    I don't see why the cloned child would even need to know the reason why it was born. It need only know that it is now loved. Think about all of the kids who were accidents, nothing more than the consequences of a single night of passion or a faulty contraceptive. Is it disgusting to have a child if it is not planned for? Of course not, so long as the parents love and care for their child.
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    "The computer programmer is a creator of universes for which he alone is responsible. Universes of virtually unlimited complexity can be created in the form of computer programs." -- Joseph Weizenbaum.

    "If you cannot grok the overall structure of a program while taking a shower, you are not ready to code it." -- Richard Pattis.

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    >If the south chose freely to abolish slavery we would
    not nearly have the present day problems

    Why do you think the south would have freely abolished slavery in any reasonable amount of time? It would have taken many decades at least for it to come about on its own (i highly doubt it would have ever came about on its own). And how many lives of the slaves would have began and ended in captivity?

    The southerners chose to fight for their "right" to have slaves. They died because they believed the right to keep slaves was worth fighting for. On the other hand, the slaves had no such choice. I dont see how you can conclude that it would have been more "moral" to allow the south to keep slaves than to force them to free the slaves. The southerners chose to fight. They chose to give their lives. That in no way compares to the situation the slaves were in.

    >Having even a few 1000 people beaten close to death

    I think you way underestimate the amount of cruel masters there were. Cruelty was the norm. Kindness was the exception. Open a history book.

    >Wether your christian or aithest, there is enough
    evidence to make the conclusion that there
    was a person named Jesus and that he did claim to be
    the mesiah.

    Perhaps.

    >A true prophet cannot lie and a false prophet is full of them

    That is based on your understanding of a prophet. Muslims might not have the requirement that a prophet cannot lie. That doesnt make their prophet and less of one.
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