View Poll Results: Should the US stop funding the Israeli military?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    17 51.52%
  • No

    11 33.33%
  • Undecided

    5 15.15%

Should the US stop funding the Israeli military?

This is a discussion on Should the US stop funding the Israeli military? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; We fund them since they are allies, even a army buddy of mine says glass em lol....

  1. #46
    RoD
    RoD is offline
    Redundantly Redundant RoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    6,331
    We fund them since they are allies, even a army buddy of mine says glass em lol.

  2. #47
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1998
    Posts
    2,595
    Reasons that the US maintains high aid rates to Israel:

    1. Much of the money to Israel comes right back into the US enconomy through sales of weapons by US companies to Israel, thus surving a duel purpose, and keeping domestic lobbiest happy.

    2. Weapon sales to Israel benifit development of US weapons.

    3. Israel is going to be strong, we are talking about a nation who made round casingins out of lipstick containers when they were struggling for independance. It is pretty safe to assume that they aren't going anywhere, especially now (particuarlly since they have nukes). However, while they are in the middle east, they provide a constant destablizing factor. Through US aid to Israel the US government maintains a large amount of control over Israelie forgien policy, thus helping to stabalize the region for the US, and for the oil we need.

    4. Israel is always seeking ways to gain $ so that they can continue to develop themselves. In the past the US has been known to use funding to Israel as a means of ensuring that Israel does not sell said advanced weapons systems to other nations, like advanced radar systems to China.

    These are some reasons, perhap later I will research and think or more.
    Kermi3

    If you're new to the boards, welcome and reading this will help you get started.
    Information on code tags may be found here

    - Sandlot is the highest form of sport.

  3. #48
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    1. Much of the money to Israel comes right back into the US enconomy through sales of weapons by US companies to Israel, thus surving a duel purpose, and keeping domestic lobbiest happy.

    2. Weapon sales to Israel benifit development of US weapons.

    3. Israel is going to be strong, we are talking about a nation who made round casingins out of lipstick containers when they were struggling for independance. It is pretty safe to assume that they aren't going anywhere, especially now (particuarlly since they have nukes). However, while they are in the middle east, they provide a constant destablizing factor. Through US aid to Israel the US government maintains a large amount of control over Israelie forgien policy, thus helping to stabalize the region for the US, and for the oil we need.

    4. Israel is always seeking ways to gain $ so that they can continue to develop themselves. In the past the US has been known to use funding to Israel as a means of ensuring that Israel does not sell said advanced weapons systems to other nations, like advanced radar systems to China.
    Well indeed, they sound very plausible reasons, but that doesn't exactly make it right.

  4. #49
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    835
    Originally posted by Clyde
    "The U.S. owes its origin to Christian pilgrims who came here and paved the way for the nation we live in today."

    Ok...Thanks

    "Thus, it should be plainly evident that a nation that owes its roots to a religion rooted in Judaism might consider a nation of Jews as its friend."

    Uh....... no. Uh...yes. It's a fact.

    "And being true to one's friends holds that a friend, especially a big friend will stand up and defend its little friend from those, like Hitler and others who would destroy it"

    Uh....... what? What, what?


    "So, the answer to the thread is NO, money should be still forthcoming until the terrorist attacks stop-thus there would be no need for arms money etc etc"

    And you think that the terrorists will just give up one day do you? One day they will be bombed so hard, have so many of their friends and family killed, that they'll forget about hating Israel? I don't think so.

    The only answer to the Israel-Palestine conflict is through, negotiation and compromise, I fail to see how fueling the conflict by supplying more weapons benefits anyone.
    The attacks will stop when one side or the other renders the
    other side unable to attack. The Israelites to this very moment consider Jerusalem and the surrounding lands as given to them by God and have no intention of giving it up. The Palestinians
    have come to the U.S. and told us that the land claimed by
    Israel rightfully belongs to the Palestinian people and until
    justice is served, there will be no peace. They emphasize: "No
    justice; no peace."

    Neither side has any intention of compromising their respective
    positions. They never have and they never will agree to live
    in peace so long as a nation called Israel resides on land
    the Palestinians claim as their own. The only way anyone will
    reign over there is through force and power. The Palestinians
    know it. The Israelites know it. And now---you know it.
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  5. #50
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    Thus, it should be plainly evident that a nation that owes its roots to a religion rooted in Judaism might consider a nation of Jews as its friend."

    Uh....... no.

    Uh...yes. It's a fact
    A fact? What a pile of balls. US interaction with Israel has nothing to do with the fact that the US "owes its existance to a religion rooted in Judaism", its not like their paying off some kind of favour.

    There is a large Jewish community in the US, thats the only "religious reason", there are also many political and economic reasons, (see Kermi's posts).

    And being true to one's friends holds that a friend, especially a big friend will stand up and defend its little friend from those, like Hitler and others who would destroy it"

    Uh....... what?

    What, what
    It's a meaningless statement; you seem to be implying that being "true" to "friends" in a political or national sense is somehow a "good" thing. Which of course is again, a pile of balls. Besides its not like arming Israel actually helps them in the long term, in the long term what would help them would be a resolution to the conflict.

    "The attacks will stop when one side or the other renders the
    other side unable to attack"

    Jesus, WAKE UP. You fool, people are dying right now in Israel because IDIOTS like you are in charge. How exactly are you going to render terrorists unable? You can't, the more innocents you kill the more terrorists will sign up. You can knock out Palestinian governmental bodies, which helps exactly no-one because they are the only ones with whom peace can be brokered.

    "The Israelites to this very moment consider Jerusalem and the surrounding lands as given to them by God and have no intention of giving it up."

    ...... Excellent religion causes death and destruction to continue indefinately because moron fanatics think they have divine right.

    You realise of course that the Palestinians think they have divine right too ya know?

    "The Palestinians
    have come to the U.S. and told us that the land claimed by
    Israel rightfully belongs to the Palestinian people and until
    justice is served, there will be no peace. They emphasize: "No
    justice; no peace."

    Right and that means we should just give up on peace does it? We should just accept that for all eternity people are going to be killing each other over that tiny piece of land? BALLS.

    Peace has nearly been achieved several times, and eventually thats how the conflict will end, negotiation not bombs is the answer.

    "Neither side has any intention of compromising their respective
    positions"

    Each "side" is made up of individual people, and there are plenty of people on both sides willing to compromist, extremists fuel the conflict, but that does not mean peace is impossible. As i said before they have come close to a resolution several times, that shows people ARE willing to compromise.

    "They never have and they never will agree to live
    in peace so long as a nation called Israel resides on land
    the Palestinians claim as their own"

    Balls; if Israel acknoledged a nation of Palestine, and allowed it 70% of the land, the conflict would be over. Of course that is a totally unreasonable figure, but it negates your claim that peace is inherently impossible.

    "The only way anyone will
    reign over there is through force and power. The Palestinians
    know it. The Israelites know it. And now---you know it."

    You sir, are a fool.
    Last edited by Clyde; 12-25-2002 at 04:45 AM.

  6. #51
    Lead Moderator kermi3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1998
    Posts
    2,595
    First of all the attacks....

    The civilians on niether side want the attacks to be happening. I have spoken, personally, to both palastinians and israelis, they hate it. The biggest thing that is needed is time. I realize this, "do nothing" solution sounds useless but follow my logic.

    1. Countless peace efforts and negotiations have failed. These should not be stopped, but I doubt that they will succeed.

    2. The current conservitive Israeli government is not likely to negotiate seriously with the Palastinians, and Arafat doesn't seem too intrested in negotiated either. (Evidence: his ties to terrorism and his support of it)

    3. The populace of Israel is becoming more and more libral....This is a major concern of the orthodoxy in Israel, infact, when the palastine issue is solved there will probably be some serious changes in Israel immediately afterwards or preceding such a change.

    4. Now why time? The reason the population of Israel is becoming more libral and reform religiously is a large number of immigrants coming from Eastren Europe and Russia, these jews are much more reform, and therefore the extreme orthodox contigent that are some of the loudest sabre rattlers, will loose power.

    I hope this makes sense....basically there is no magic solution, US money or not. While our aid helps Israel, the halting of it will not solve things, only deteriate them since there will be no US control restraining Israel from really striking back.

    I agree with Clyde that religion isn't the biggest issue here as far as US aid is concerned. However, it does come into play with why the conflict is of course.

    There is a large Jewish community in the US, thats the only "religious reason", there are also many political and economic reasons
    Actually there isn't. The Jewish population is less than 2% in the US. Not really significgant politically. The only reason they/we are is that: (1) Stereotypically Jews tends to be better educated and vote more (Note that one of the highest values in Judaism is education) and (2) They/We do represent a sizable voting population on New York (concentration) so therefore are influencial to NY politics and NY Senators/Congressman. Especially democrats.
    Kermi3

    If you're new to the boards, welcome and reading this will help you get started.
    Information on code tags may be found here

    - Sandlot is the highest form of sport.

  7. #52
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    "1. Countless peace efforts and negotiations have failed. These should not be stopped, but I doubt that they will succeed."

    I don't know, they have come very close to succeeding before, and i think part of the reason they don't succeed is because the US is seen as partisan.

    "2. The current conservitive Israeli government is not likely to negotiate seriously with the Palastinians, and Arafat doesn't seem too intrested in negotiated either. (Evidence: his ties to terrorism and his support of it)"

    I'm not so sure Arafat isn't interested in negotiation, the previous attempts came close and he was incharge then, i think he should probably have accepted Barak's offer, you may be right though, it may be that peace will only come when the next generation of leaders arise.

    "3. The populace of Israel is becoming more and more libral....."

    Wooot.

    "4. Now why time? The reason the population of Israel is becoming more libral and reform religiously is a large number of immigrants coming from Eastren Europe and Russia, these jews are much more reform, and therefore the extreme orthodox contigent that are some of the loudest sabre rattlers, will loose power."

    Hmm you present an interesting argument, the question is, how much time? Orthodoxy thrives in times of violence and crisis, i would be suprised if the fantatics were made powerless in the near future. Though i may well be wrong, perhaps change is happening that rapidly.

    "I hope this makes sense....basically there is no magic solution, US money or not."

    Agreed.

    "While our aid helps Israel, the halting of it will not solve things, only deteriate them since there will be no US control restraining Israel from really striking back."

    This however i disagree with; whilst halting US aid may well not solve things it would certainly make them better, there have been prolonged cease-fires in the past, the US can act as a stabilising force but that function is greatly reduced because it is seen by one side to be biased.

    I really do not see the US exerting much control over Israel, everytime they launch into Palestinian territory the US fire off a statement saying they support Israel's actions to defend itself.

    Not only do i see US aid not helping the Israel-Palestine conflict but it really REALLY harms the US because so much anti-US feeling in the middle-East is centred around Israel.

    What you have said makes me much more hopefull for a resolution in the future but i don't think that means we should merely leave it as it is, actions could be taken now that would help stabilise the region.

    "Actually there isn't. The Jewish population is less than 2% in the US. Not really significgant politically. The only reason they/we are is that: (1) Stereotypically Jews tends to be better educated and vote more (Note that one of the highest values in Judaism is education) and (2) They/We do represent a sizable voting population on New York (concentration) so therefore are influencial to NY politics and NY Senators/Congressman. Especially democrats"

    Oh, i didn't know that, never the less the point remains that the Jewish population does have a fair amount of political power for the reasons you give.

  8. #53
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    835
    Clyde, the only moron here is you. It would be best for all concerned if you just went to the Holy Land and stuck out your foolish neck out far enough, while yelling, Peace, please!" at the top of you lungs until some merciful Jew or Palestinian comes along and cuts it off.
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  9. #54
    Shadow12345
    Guest
    Clyde, the only moron here is you. It would be best for all concerned if you just went to the Holy Land and stuck out your foolish neck out far enough, while yelling, Peace, please!" at the top of you lungs until some merciful Jew or Palestinian comes along and cuts it off.
    well then you're both wrong, clyde isn't a moron, if he called you a moron he's wrong because you aren't a moron. There just is no simple solution, except for maybe going back in time and not kicking the Palestinians out of Palestine, but then again there may still be in a similar situation today if we hadn't kicked out the palestinians.

  10. #55
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,420
    "if he called you a moron he's wrong because you aren't a moron"

    ....... you might want to read his posts.......

    "There just is no simple solution"

    Agreed.

    Key word being "simple".

  11. #56
    Shadow12345
    Guest
    ....... you might want to read his posts.......
    I haven't read anything written by either of you that I strongly disagree with

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. fscanf %s or %d integer input space char stop question...
    By transgalactic2 in forum C Programming
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-14-2009, 10:44 AM
  2. when a while loop will stop ?
    By blue_gene in forum C Programming
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-20-2004, 03:45 PM
  3. stuff
    By mfc2themax in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-08-2001, 01:40 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21