View Poll Results: Should the US stop funding the Israeli military?

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  • Yes

    17 51.52%
  • No

    11 33.33%
  • Undecided

    5 15.15%

Should the US stop funding the Israeli military?

This is a discussion on Should the US stop funding the Israeli military? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Yes we should. America as a prime directive (if you will) to support the spread of democracy around the world, ...

  1. #16
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    Yes we should. America as a prime directive (if you will) to support the spread of democracy around the world, esp. in hostile areas. You cant get more hostile than the Middle East.

    Supporting the spread includes supporting those already in existence. I cant say that I agree with all of what Isreal does but the blame isnt entirely on their shoulders.
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  2. #17
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    Yes, they should stop.

    It seems exceedingly unethical to me, and it harms America: a large portion of the anti-US feeling in the Middle-East is due to the US backing of Israel.

  3. #18
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    Oops, my response should have been No we shouldnt
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  4. #19
    Shadow12345
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    This debate isn't really about whether Israel has the right to exist or not. More about whether America should continue to supply it with arms
    Correct minesweeper, there is no simple answer to 'whether or not israel should exist' and to tell you the truth, it probably won't cease to 'exist' whether it should or shouldn't.

    By Clyde:
    It seems exceedingly unethical to me, and it harms America: a large portion of the anti-US feeling in the Middle-East is due to the US backing of Israel.
    My exact thoughts. I wonder if the support of Israel has/had anything to do with the Al-Qaida (and similar) terrorist groups that oppose the us.

  5. #20
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    >It seems exceedingly unethical to me

    How so?

    >I wonder if the support of Israel has/had anything to do with the Al-Qaida (and similar) terrorist groups that oppose the us.

    I dont think it does. Supporting Isreal started long before terrorist groups were a large threat to the US.
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  6. #21
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    >>Supporting Isreal started long before terrorist groups were a large threat to the US.<<

    That doesn't necessarily mean that the support of Israel wasn't to blame for terrorist groups forming. It could just be that it takes time for these groups to obtain the money, manpower, resources etc to become a threat. But I am just raising a point here, not being part of a middle eastern terrorist organisation means I don't really know.

  7. #22
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    "How so?"

    Hmm, the Israel-Palestine issue is not simple, the educated UK population seems to be quite pro-Palestine (but in most cases the arguments presented seem quite biased), in the US pro-Israeli opinion seems to dominate (a skeptic might point to the large Jewish community within the US).

    My opinions on the subject has oscillated around a central tenent that both sides have done, and continue to do quite horrible things to each other.

    The history is complex, convoluted and contrary to what both sides claim it does not clearly show one side to be in the right.

    I find the arming of the Israeli government to be a somewhat arbitrary taking of sides. If we turn back the clock and reverse the Palestinian and Israeli positions i rather think that the US involvement would have been quite different: In 1948 when Israel was attacked, I cannot see the US intervening if it had been the Palestinians who had declared a state of Palestine and were hence under attack from neighbouring pro-Israeli countries wanting to install an Israeli controlled government. That amongst other factors (the damage to the peace process, the US political and economic interests in the area) seems to make the US-involvement unethical.

    I don't in any way condone suicide bombers, but i don't condone the Israeli shootings and mistreatment of Palestinian people either. Nor do i believe that responding with more and more force accomplishes anything what-so-ever; the more force Israel throws at the Palestinians the more suicide bombers rise from the Palestinian population. Arming Israel merely furthers the cycle.

    The Palestinian people have terrible problems, the money spent on arming Israel with missiles, tanks and bombs, could be spent improving the life of Palestinian refugees thrown out of their homes 50 years ago hence easing some of the Palestinian feelings of hostility towards the Israelis. I also see it as fundamentally damaging to the peace process: the US as the world's strongest super-power can have a very beneficial effect by soothing troubled areas, several attempts have been made to support the peace process in Israel, but remember you are then asking the Palestinians to listen to an outsider who is also arming their enemy! Of course Palestinians are naturally suspect of any proposals from the West as inherently anti-Palestinian. How much more effective could US intervention as a force for peace be, if they weren't seen by the Palestinians as a country in-league with their enemies?

    Its a complicated situation with no easy solution, but i really do not think throwing more weapons into the mix helps anyone.
    Last edited by Clyde; 12-20-2002 at 11:09 AM.

  8. #23
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    Well clyde I was going to quote you on a few specific areas but i agree with everything you have just said. I think you have just pretty much summed up the entire situation

  9. #24
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    hmmm, im starting to reconsider my position...

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  10. #25
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    That source certainly is interesting because its (supposedly) written by someone who is Jewish, but it does seem a little one sided.

    Most articles you find about Israel-Palestine are biased, so i am always a little suspect of articles that have a clear conclusion as to whom is in the right.

    (I find it odd there is no mention of the Peel and Woodhead commissions of 1937 and 1938 which recommended partioning Palestine into a small Jewish state a large Arab one)

    One i have found which seems about as close to unbiased as possible is:

    http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

    They only state events without passing judgement on them.

    My own personal stance is certainly more sympathetic towards the Palestinians (with regards to the history) BUT i do not think they are entirely blame-less.
    Last edited by Clyde; 12-20-2002 at 12:08 PM.

  11. #26
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    I voted yes, I don't like war and people funding wars.

  12. #27
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    My own personal stance is certainly more sympathetic towards the Palestinians (with regards to the history) BUT i do not think they are entirely blame-less.
    I don't know if you knew this or not, I assume you did but I must say it anyway: The Jewish people were the first group in recorded history to live in Israel (don't know what it was called back then, so I just call it Israel always). I don't remember what the specific reasons were, but the Romans considered the Jewish people a nuisance and they were taken out of their land and dispersed all throughout Asia and Europe. And guess who moved in? The Palestinian people. For a very long time the Palestinians lived in 'Israel' (although it was called Palestine when they lived there) until about 50 years ago when the US kicked out the Palestinians in much the same way the Romans kicked out the Jewish people. Israel was subsequently given back to the Jewish people. This happened after the Holocaust (sp?) in an attempt to kind of help the consistently persecuted Jews. It was an attempt to help out a group of people that have always had a rough time. Sadly the whole thing turned south and caused more problems.

    I voted yes, I don't like war and people funding wars.
    I think we should all pay more attention to Shiro's comment above. There is no real logical answer to this predicament in the Middle Easy, however we can all logically agree that wars are a very bad thing.

  13. #28
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    it truely galls(or in the reverse causes me to laugh out loud at it) me how little you all know about the world or politics or generally how stuff works and how it has to work, and yet you still feel confident to state an opinion that you would defend to the death.
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  14. #29
    RoD
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    Originally posted by no-one
    it truely galls(or in the reverse causes me to laugh out loud at it) me how little you all know about the world or politics or generally how stuff works and how it has to work, and yet you still feel confident to state an opinion that you would defend to the death.
    u you just insulted 90% of the worlds population :P

  15. #30
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    unfortunatly that includes me...heh.
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