Is Kazaa being greedy?

This is a discussion on Is Kazaa being greedy? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >> (and the occasional luck of the draw website) they dont exist......

  1. #16
    Refugee face_master's Avatar
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    >> (and the occasional luck of the draw website)

    they dont exist...

  2. #17
    Unleashed
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    > they dont exist...
    I've found a few.
    The world is waiting. I must leave you now.

  3. #18
    Refugee face_master's Avatar
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    >> I've found a few.

    eg.?

  4. #19
    Satan valar_king's Avatar
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    Originally posted by face_master
    >> I've found a few.

    eg.?
    http://www.mp3.com
    -Save the whales. Collect the whole set.

  5. #20
    RoD
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    Originally posted by Betazep
    For the most part... yes.

    Kazaa-lite is a slimmed down software app that was written to work with Kazaa... sort of a hacked version I guess you could call it.

    It operates well... and takes out all of the advertisements and popups.

    The main problem with both products is Kazaa's inherent trojan that they utilize for updates/upgrades.

    I am not going into it again... this is so old news that I announced it back on 5-29 and I was a bit behind the times even then... since the trojan release occured in March of this year.

    Read all you want from my last post on the subject and by following the links I provided before.

    Kazaa supplied trojan? Yes!

    Its always there, you can't not have it. If your on kazza's servers, which lite is, u have spyware, period.

  6. #21
    l'Anziano DavidP's Avatar
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    one word:

    iMesh


    It will solve all of your problems. www.imesh.com
    My Website

    "Circular logic is good because it is."

  7. #22
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ride -or- Die
    Its always there, you can't not have it. If your on kazza's servers, which lite is, u have spyware, period.
    I just woke up... so I won't say all the mean things I want to say about you cause it could get pretty ugly...

    If you are going through a proxy connecting to their servers, I guarantee they know nothing about you.

    When you connect to any server, certain information is stored about you. The server can grab other information (sometimes in the form of cookies) from your computer to further that knowlege.

    Every server you touch on the internet has the capability to do this... every webpage... every communication (with kazaa lite you can disable the start pages for shopping, ads, etc to cause a little more anonymity).

    That is not spyware, and it can be circumvented by modifying the data sent by your computer. Sure... it certainly exists. "IP so-n-so is downloading this and that..."

    But who cares what I think about it... you must have some sort of proof with supporting links to know such things right? So I call you on it.


    Kazaa Lite: No Spyware Aftertaste
    http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,51916,00.html


    "Spyware Defined: Silent background use of an Internet "backchannel" connection MUST BE PRECEDED by a complete and truthful disclosure of proposed backchannel usage, followed by the receipt of explicit, informed, consent for such use. Any software communicating across the Internet absent of these elements is guilty of information theft and is properly and rightfully termed: Spyware"

    Steve Gibson, GRC.com
    IMPORTANT NOTE: There is now a much easier way of accessing the FastTrack file-sharing network with no danger of spyware or "secret networks" (e.g. KaZaA's bundled AltNet). It's called KaZaA Lite and it's fantastic. Basically what these guys have done is taken the KaZaA client, stripped out all the spyware, and repackaged it as KaZaA Lite. With KaZaA Lite, there is no longer a need for the extensive (and possibly confusing) instructions formerly provided here.
    http://www.project-insomnia.com/kazaa.html
    "The SaveNow program included with KaZaA appears to be doing just that as it has open connections to the index files in your Temporary Internet Files, History, and Cookies directories."
    Last edited by Betazep; 11-02-2002 at 10:20 AM.
    Blue

  8. #23
    RoD
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    All the proof is on your pc. Run regular kazza and scan yerself, run lite and scan yerself. Gee look thats almost exactly the same.

  9. #24
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Are you saying that by having an open port means you are being spied on? That is foolish...

    Any network based application you run opens a port. Is IE or Netscape spyware then?

    When you make a web based connection to any of my webservers, I log your activity: your IP address, your browser type, where you came from, etc. I use this information to profile my users to city/state, browser type, time of most traffic, etc.

    That is all given to me on your front channel. The IP is given to me because for both TCP and UDP connections you need a return address or I cannot send my data to you.

    This is not called spyware... it is called the internet... or for better terminology... a network. (I don't profile individual people by their surfing habits, etc)

    Apparently you know little about networks and computer connectivity. I give you three notable experts (Gibson Research, Wired, Project Insomnia) who are very insanely security minded, and you do not believe.

    First you say the proof is on the server... then the proof is on my PC!!! And then you talk about a port scan from a computer running a program that opens ports. Ok... that is about pointless. It might mean something if I scanned a Kazaa computer from a remote computer, but do you know what I would expect to find? Open ports for Kazaa transfers... duh!

    Perhaps you are talking about packet sniffing? Grabbing all the packets that come into the transport layer and analyzing the data for back channel communications.

    Well if you have done this and have substantiated proof, I am sure the world would want to know about it. Not only would it prove all the above security experts wrong, but it would show the evil nature of Kazaa and Kazaa Lite.

    It wouldn't be much of a suprise that Kazaa is utilizing spyware (to which they deny) as they bundle a freakin trojan in with their software for that very reason.

    But the link that I gave you (that you probably didn't even look at) for project-insomnia tells you how to remove any spyware that even may exist on Kazaa-lite.

    Whatever... I am sure I have proved my point to anyone sane.
    Blue

  10. #25
    PC Fixer-Upper Waldo2k2's Avatar
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    i'm going to try and stay somewhat neutral in the argument going between ride or die and betazep...but, i feel like putting my opinion down too. On a basic level, i believe that kazaa is NOT spyware...but on a higher level, the level on which it is used, it IS spyware. They use their program to learn things about you from your computer, whether it be as innocent as internet history, or if they really go digging, they can do it all if they want. But generally they look at things like internet history, then use programs they install on your computer WITHOUT asking you (savenow) and use it to target you with ads and such. So, it comes down to who's holding the gun, and as far as I'm concerned kazaa would be the one to pull the trigger. Be afraid.
    PHP and XML
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  11. #26
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    Good points...

    But the true question is whether or not kazaa-lite (an app written to eliminate Kazaa inherent spyware) still contains spyware.

    I remind you...

    Spyware is any software application or otherwise that uses backchannel communications to gain any degree of information about users from their computers... only if not told in the terms and conditions and agreed apon for use.

    The only way Kazaa can activate its savenow feature is through the BDE trojan that is bundled with the application and can be removed. I am not arguing that this is bad. I am saying... knowlege is power... don't be afraid if you have the knowlege.... remove Kazaa's ability to utilize your computer by removing the BDE trojan.

    People can't just tell your computer to run things unless there is an 'in'. This 'in' is usually a trojan. Network traffic into a computer doesn't just start up executables unless something is there waiting to be started. (a listening application)

    BDE is listening when Kazaa is running. That is of course unless BDE does not exist.

    Just the same... you have adware with Kazaa by connecting to their homepages within the program.

    This is why you use Kazaa lite. You can change the home page information with kazaa lite... making you pretty much impervious to spyware and adware.

    Now there is only a question of local server 'history.' If they were to keep a history of your activities by IP and you have a static IP... they may know you download teen porn and the new eminem disk (or rather they would know a certain IP did this--it is unknown, but unlikely that they would use this information BTW). If you really gave a crap, you can use a proxy program like A4 or others to make it appear like you were coming from someplace else in the world.

    Most of all... don't be afraid... be intelligent... be knowlegeable. You are freaking programmers and you are afraid of a little software application.

    Weak.

    (will you look at the links and quotes I provided above)
    Last edited by Betazep; 11-03-2002 at 09:04 AM.

  12. #27
    Emotionally Unstable DarkViper's Avatar
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    kazaa is also just a runoff hacked and cracked version of Morphius. did you notice that both had the EXACT same layout???
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  13. #28
    RoD
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    *AHEM*

    Ok on with the show!

    >>Apparently you know little about networks and computer connectivity. I give you three notable experts (Gibson Research, Wired, Project Insomnia) who are very insanely security minded, and you do not believe.


    Actualy i know a great deal about networks. I never said ports, you assumed that was what i meant.

    >>First you say the proof is on the server... then the proof is on my PC!!! And then you talk about a port scan from a computer running a program that opens ports. Ok... that is about pointless. It might mean something if I scanned a Kazaa computer from a remote computer, but do you know what I would expect to find? Open ports for Kazaa transfers... duh!


    Once again you assume, i never said port scan, i never said anything about ports. I never said scan a remote kazaa user, i said scan yourself, and i thought maybe you had enough sense to realize i meant a spyware detector....DUH.

    >>Perhaps you are talking about packet sniffing? Grabbing all the packets that come into the transport layer and analyzing the data for back channel communications.


    No i'm not, and thank you Mr.Gates but i am aware of what packet sniffing is.

    >>Well if you have done this and have substantiated proof, I am sure the world would want to know about it. Not only would it prove all the above security experts wrong, but it would show the evil nature of Kazaa and Kazaa Lite.


    I didn't HAVE to do it. This was proved by NewOrder, Blacknet, Driven, Hackerz Haven, and more then a few other security/hacking based websites! Do some research.

    >>Whatever... I am sure I have proved my point to anyone sane.


    Sorry, no sanity here. I am not going to argue the points/facts someone else compiled and released to the public, search up on of those sites, look around em a little bit, and you will find it. I have much better things to do then argue over this, which is why i said i wasn't arguing it in the FIRST place.

    -RoD

  14. #29
    Registered User dirkduck's Avatar
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    "All the proof is on your pc. Run regular kazza and scan yerself, run lite and scan yerself. Gee look thats almost exactly the same."

    Since Kazaa lite is just a hacked version of Kazaa, it uses "dummy" spyware files, so the main program will still run correctly. Spyware removers will flag them as trouble, but they are just there to allow the program to run.

    Anyways, I suggest WinMX:www.winmx.com. Its my favorite, nice and straightforward.

  15. #30
    Emotionally Unstable DarkViper's Avatar
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    i had winmx and it ran too slow.

    if you were going for mp3's i woulda suggested SongSpy. at www.songspy.com but they got caught by the legal system. they made a nice pis for the front pge though. nicly detailed.
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