Kashmir/Terrorism Issue

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  1. #1
    Dude
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    Question Kashmir/Terrorism Issue

    We all seen on TV, how Al Qaeda is training it's "jihadis"
    to wage a war against the west.

    Similar tapes were shown by the Indian media on terrorrist
    groups like Laskhar -e- Toyba, etc. which also train young
    pakistanis and some local kashmiris to attack the Indian
    rule in Kashmir.

    This has been going on for decades now but still United
    States tells India to shut up, although Pakistan has been
    in the "terrorist nations list" for the last decade or so.

    When Indian Airlines flight was hijacked and taken into
    afghanistan by pakistani-afghan based terrorrists, (this happened
    in 1998 i think), one of the major millitants who was under
    captivity of the Indian Military was asked to be released
    in exchange of the innocent hostages of the IA flight.

    The same guy was in the list of the prime suspects of the
    September 11 attacks, this time, in the USA.

    since 1947, there have been great killing of innocent people
    in kashmir. (the population of hindus was 70% in that Kashmir
    in those days). they were slowly killed...
    today, the population of hindus in that state is 2%,
    who are now indian citizens who are refugees in their own
    country and running to New Delhi for shelter.

    As most residents in Kashmir are now mulims who have been
    infiltrating into the country for 50 yrs now, Pakistan is
    asking for the "opinion" of "kashmiris"
    (who, obviously, choose Pakistan because they *came* from
    that country by infiltration and wiped out the local people
    and especially all the hindus in Kashmir)

    Musharraf said "as india is a big country and as we lose a
    conventional war, we have to use nuclear weapons to deal
    with it." Now, doesn't it sound like a nuclear threat ?

    Think about it this way... a small neighbouring country of the US
    says "as we can't fight a conventional war against US, we have
    to use the Nukes"...
    now, how should USA interpret this ? isn't that a nuclear
    blackmail?

    My question is, why does US keep quiet when it comes to the
    issue of pakistani terrorrists in Kashmir ? or rather tells india
    to calm down when terrorrists are infiltrating into the country?

  2. #2
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    The US government (may I stress the government part of that) has it's own vested interests in what goes on.

    Besides, surley you aren't that naive to think that only the Pakistani's are the one's using terrorism, or are the only one's killing innocent people. The Indian threat of using a nuclear bomb is in itself, perhaps the greatest example of this.

  3. #3
    Dude
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    FYI

    FYI, I am not from India. I am from Singapore. And i am not an
    Indian, nor a decendant of any indians for that matter

    >The Indian threat of using a nuclear bomb is in itself, perhaps the greatest example of this.

    Prove this.

  4. #4
    ”Amo fśtbol!
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    Dude, would you rather protect someone else's country of half your population or your own country? The US needs (maybe not needs, but could definately use) Pakistan to protect itself. As selfish as this may sound, the US needs to protect itself before it can help others.

  5. #5
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    Please see this thread .
    This isssue has been extensively and inconclusively (to either side's satisfaction) debated.
    You can bring it up again, but don't expect any big change in opinion/replies unless there's some new and flagrant event. Might be easier to just read the opinions already held, since nobody's changing them.
    Not flaming you, would write the same to anyone on this topic.
    Opposing sides are not going to agree, regardless of facts/events.
    Any rational person can see that the whole thing is lunacy, but since it's practiced by world leaders, it's national policy.
    Truth is a malleable commodity - Dick Cheney

  6. #6
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by golfinguy4
    Dude, would you rather protect someone else's country of half your population or your own country?
    i hate to break it to you, but india has maybe 3 or 4 times our population.

  7. #7
    Still A Registered User DISGUISED's Avatar
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    My question is, why does US keep quiet when it comes to the
    issue of pakistani terrorrists in Kashmir ? or rather tells india
    to calm down when terrorrists are infiltrating into the country?
    That is simply not true. The US opposes terrorism in all forms. In the last few months there has been nonstop diplomatic pressure on both nations for the violence in and around Kashmir to stop.

    We have sent our Defense Secretary, Deputy Secretary of State, and even the Secretary of State to the region to negotiate with both sides and attempt to get to the root of terrorism. Colon Powell has been in daily communication with the leaders of both countries.

    Maybe it's not enough...I am not expert .... But I think it's a far cry from keeping quiet and telling India to just calm down.

  8. #8
    Registered User moonwalker's Avatar
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    hmm

    >But I think it's a far cry from keeping quiet and telling India to just calm down.
    i personally think that that should be told to pakistan first!

    Before jumping into any conclusions, one should keep in mind
    that Pakistan is an Islamic Fundamentalist country with a
    military ruler, also a country where osama is suspected to
    be residing safely whereas India is the largest democracy
    where even muslims and christians can live freely. (for e.g.
    the president of India is a Muslim right now).... that is the
    greatness of a free country.
    such freedom can not be had by non muslims
    in Islamic Nations like pakistan.
    Last edited by moonwalker; 08-21-2002 at 07:47 PM.

  9. #9
    ”Amo fśtbol!
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    Originally posted by ygfperson

    i hate to break it to you, but india has maybe 3 or 4 times our population.
    Ya, ignore me. I'm an idiot when it comes to those kind of things.

  10. #10
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    Re: FYI

    Originally posted by Dude
    FYI, I am not from India. I am from Singapore. And i am not an
    Indian, nor a decendant of any indians for that matter

    >The Indian threat of using a nuclear bomb is in itself, perhaps the greatest example of this.

    Prove this.
    I don't have to prove anything that's already known.

    The fear created from the threat of using a nuclear bomb creates a sense of terror. Using violence (or the threat of violence) to gain demands whether they may be for peace or for revenge, is an act of terrorism.

  11. #11
    vasanth
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    hmm what is this... now .. I am an Indian... well i say.. dont debate it is a waste.. But being an Indian i have to say something here....



    <QUOTE>We have sent our Defense Secretary, Deputy Secretary of State, and even the Secretary of State to the region to negotiate with both sides and attempt to get to the root of terrorism. Colon Powell has been in daily communication with the leaders of both countries. </QUOTE>



    Well why did uncle sam come running to the region.. Because it found out tyhat the happenings here could harm its intrest.. it did not want India to engage it's troops with the pakistanis since it required pakistan troops to watch the afganistan border(asking the thief to gaurd the house).. America did not give a damm execpt send secratiries on tours... when India said that they were tired of terrorism.. But when India said we are ready for war.. US came running to stop it.. And said that Musharaf has promised.. WHAT PROMISE.. Then if Osama promises to the US that he will stop terrorism will the US leave afganistan..

    US always plays a double sided game and it is going to regret one day... (waiting for US lovers to flame me..)


    And about the population 1/6 th of the worlds humanity lives in India.. So we have every right to defend this 1/6 th of humanity against a small population of pakistan...

    The US thinks it wants to do a balancing act instead of siding with one party... It wants pakistan now to fight a war in afganistan.. and it wants India for future in the area to balance the Chineese.. What type of game does the US think it is playing... Even after the promises there have been proof of inflitration.. and just 2 weeks befpore we had a killing... So now do we go the US secratiries and say what happened to you promise of Musharaf promise...

    And you US guys blame india.. try living in pakistan and India for a year.... In pakistan you have no right... even in the court of law in pakistan if you are a non muslim you are doomed.. but in india particularly the US citizens are considered high(even though their brain is in a small nutshell which does not know anything outside America)...



    Well i know many will flame here.. talk about peace and rubbish.. any way continue...

  12. #12
    Registered User moonwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Re: FYI

    Originally posted by [stealth]


    I don't have to prove anything that's already known.

    The fear created from the threat of using a nuclear bomb creates a sense of terror. Using violence (or the threat of violence) to gain demands whether they may be for peace or for revenge, is an act of terrorism.
    From your dumb logic, you can also come to
    a conclusion that United States is among the
    greatest threats to human kind from
    the amount of nukes it has!
    In fact, this fear even needn't be irrational because the only
    country that used big nukes so far against another country,
    and that too, twice is United states. (hiroshima & nagasaki)

    I'm just giving this as an example of your stupid logic (not
    here to teach anti US propaganda) i am just using your own
    logic to prove how conclusions can be drawn.

    i just want you to think before coming into conclusions.

    >The fear created from the threat of using a nuclear bomb creates a sense of terror. Using violence (or the threat of violence) to gain demands whether they may be for peace or for revenge, is an act of terrorism.

    although there is an invisible point in what you say,
    you needn't come into dumb conclusions like these.
    It's not just who possesses it, it is also who is more likely
    to use!!!

    and your so called "threat of violence" of using the nuke
    first was giving by Musharraf itself, that too on a TV interview!!!
    (i think it is also shown in CNN)

    India can defend itself with conventional weapons, so it doesn't
    really need to use a nuke (unless they use it first against
    india) .. if any country wants to use a nuke because it loses
    the conventional war, it is obviously pakistan.

    The whole world is facing terrorrism from islamic fundamentalists.
    take a look at all the terrorrist organizations' names and you'd
    know where they came from.

    that is also the main reason why US is not selling its F16s to it.
    There's also proof that the ammo that US gave to pakistan
    to defend against terrorrists in afghanistan is being used by
    pakistani soldiers in kashmir!!

    During the kargil war, pakistan kept saying that there aren't
    any military operations and that they are solely terrorrists,
    (the word they used here was "freedom fighters")
    but when 7 so called "freedom fighters" were killed in a coup
    by the indian military, they all were in uniforms along with IDs
    and they're from the pakistani army.

    When india sent the bodies to pakistan (like every country does,
    this is a convention of war), pakistan feared that their lies would
    be proven by this and said they weren't pakistani soldiers and
    disagreed take their bodies.
    This is the respect it gives to it's own soldiers.

    All those IDs and other things that prove they're pakistani
    soldiers are still in India.

    so don't come into blind conclusions and support
    the fundamentalistic ideas of islam.

    And you US guys blame india.. try living in pakistan and India for a year.... In pakistan you have no right... even in the court of law in pakistan if you are a non muslim you are doomed.. but in india particularly the US citizens are considered high(even though their brain is in a small nutshell which does not know anything outside America)...
    This is absolutely true!!!!!

    and here's a small example of how fundamentalist they are:-
    right now, they're fighting in court whether or not to allow
    banks to charge interest because taking interest on the principal
    is unislamic.
    i dont know if the bill has already been passed in their parliament,
    well, maybe next year....
    it's going to be funny how this is going to turn out to be
    Last edited by moonwalker; 08-22-2002 at 09:16 AM.

  13. #13
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    moonwalker perhaps you should take a class in "how to take part in an adult discussion".

    The power of the nuclear bomb is the greatest threat to humanity that exists. Any nation that has created a nuclear bomb is a threat to humanity.

    This is the truth - accept it or do not accept it.

    >>so don't come into blind conclusions and support
    the fundamentalistic ideas of islam.<<

    Do not misquote or misrepresent my words - I have not said I supported anybody in this issue. You are simply putting your own interpretation on the situation that I must be on somebody's side. The actions of both Pakistan and India are utterly despicable. Both nations should be ashamed of themselves for ever having started this whole situation. It is pure and simply ignorance of religion, lifestyle, and beliefs that have led to the tensions between India and Pakistan.

    The simple truth is both sides are equally to blame as each other. Violence begets violence.
    Last edited by mithrandir; 08-22-2002 at 09:17 AM.

  14. #14
    Registered User moonwalker's Avatar
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    Code:
    moonwalker perhaps you should take a class in "how to take part in an adult discussion".
    and you have to take the course "how to think before i open
    my wide mouth"

    i am really ........ed now at your ignorance..

    The power of the nuclear bomb is the greatest threat to humanity that exists. Any nation that has created a nuclear bomb is a threat to humanity.

    This is the truth - accept it or do not accept it.
    True.. i dont disagree...

    the reason why i was quoting that was because this is bull crap
    when it comes to a situation where one is threatening to use
    it first, and the other is trying to defend itself and possesses
    nukes.

    I have a gun, you have a gun. i put the gun on you and say
    i'm gonna kill you if you don't give me your wallet... you also
    have a gun and say "if you shoot me, i'll shoot you too"..

    and meanwhile someone pops in and says "since you both
    have guns... you're equally a great threat to everyone here..
    you both should stop"

    now doesn't this logic look like bull crap?

    >>so don't come into blind conclusions and support
    the fundamentalistic ideas of islam.<<

    Do not misquote or misrepresent my words - I have not said I supported anybody in this issue. You are simply putting your own interpretation on the situation that I must be on somebody's side.
    When there're terrorrists and a civilization fighting against each
    other... telling BOTH sides to stop, especially after a lot of
    damage is already done (e.g. in kashmir), is same as supporting
    the terrorrist.
    Last edited by moonwalker; 08-22-2002 at 09:28 AM.

  15. #15
    aurė entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    There is no need to get emotional about it - I just felt that you could learn to actually construct an argument based upon reason rather that poor logic. You call me ignorant, yet it is you who did not see my point in the first place. Now let us be done of these personal insults - we're getting off the issue and being selfish.

    >>When there're terrorrists and a civilization fighting against each
    other... telling BOTH sides to stop, especially after a lot of
    damage is already done, is same as supporting the terrorrist.<<

    Firstly, there are two sides to every argument - to the Islam in the streets of Pakistan, he is right. To the Indian in the streets of India, he is right. Neither side is right. There is no side to be taken that is right. Right and wrong are merley emotional perceptions.

    There are no victors in war.

    The only way to end this conflict is through non-violence and through communication. Many have died, and many more will continue to die until both nations (and indeed all of humanity) realise this.

    Until we rid ourselves of the need to kill to solve problems, there will be no peace.

    Now you will say perhaps "you're very naive" - well no I'm not, because it will be a long time yet before there is ever peace and an end to war. I believe that both sides in this conflict will destory each other before they find peace.
    Last edited by mithrandir; 08-22-2002 at 09:33 AM.

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