Religious Bull****

Witch King, you're currently being an extremist. I'm assuming this is because you're very angry, and that you're not always like that. Please calm down and discuss things in a better way.

<Witch_King>
From your name I can tell that you are a religious fundamentalist terrorist from Afghanistan. Were you the one who told Bin Laden to leave? What did he say? Did he spit in your face?
Religion has lead the Afghans to put their women in slavery. Did you beat your wife today?

1 - Religion and terrorism are mutually exclusive
2 - Fundamentalism : The belief in old and traditional forms of religion, or the belief that what is written in a holy book is completely true.

I'm a fundamentalist, and that means I'm totally against terrorism and I'm totally against killing civilians (let's not say innocent people). Terrorists aren't fundamentalists, it has never happened in the history of Muslim leaders that such massacres were made. I don't know who fooled the world to think that islamic fundamentalism is terrorism. You shouldn't call them fundamentalists, they shouldn't think of themselves as fundamentalists.
My fundamentalism means I believe what's in the Qur'an is true, and that's good - for your sake.

3 - Women : Since you've judged that Islam has led the Afghans to enslave women, give me your evidence Islam ordered/instructed them to do so (verses from the Qur'an or sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) )

<Witch_King>
We have video tape of them getting into the plane. The took flight training lessons in the USA.

I've seen a frame of the video tape containing one that's supposed to be the supspect, and the real photo of the supspect. They look absolutely different from each other.

Anyway, around 700 muslims have been killed there. Whoever's done it is either not a muslim, or is just a muslim by id card (i.e doesn't represent Islam)

<steve_i83>
the muslim religion is not that extremist

Indeed. Those terrorists claim to be muslims, to judge that you'd have to check their actions against the Islam's written laws (found in Qur'an & Sunnah). If anybody tries that, he'll find that those people are completely against Islamic teachings.

And by the way, in psychology there's this personality known as 'extremist'. It has nothing to do with the religion or faith, it's a presonality that wherever put (in any conditions/medium) would go to the extreme. If witch king is always like that, then he's an extremist and he can be easily converted to a terrorist give the correct medium.

<Nick>
The evidence is of the kind where by disclosing the source would lead to trouble. The US as had it's eyes on Bin Ladden for along time, he has also already been convicted of other crimes.

A tough situation! How'd you expect them to hand Bin Laden then? If they trusted you, they would've handed him, but they don't.
Many people here don't trust you, myself included. Don't get me wrong, but don't expect me to trust a country like U.S.A given all its actions around me, against me. We treat you with caution, hoping that - with your power - you'd make things right, but most of the time you don't.

By the way, if the U.S.A had its eyes on Bin Laden and is so sharp-eyed, how come they didn't stop the attack? I recall the someone said (from the C.I.A maybe, a long while ago) that they knew the color of Saddam's underwear. Now I wonder how they couldn't spot the plane-crash thing.

<Nick>
Untrue. We scrambled the f15's to possibly shoot down the commercial airliner in washington but too late.

Hmmm, I know about the F-15's. I was speaking of an automatic air defense system that's supposed to counter any planes entering the Pentagon's air field.
Please correct me Nick (and thank you very much for your reasonable, respectable post. Much appreciated )

<Witch_King>
The battle in Israel is not about ethnic cleansing. It is a religious war.

Well, to some extent it is. The Palestine-Israel problem is a huge one, and could take discussions alone. It all started from a religious aspect, Jews claiming rights to the land promised to them in the Torah (old testament) & Belfour of England promised to give them land in Palestine! (so it was started by England and many other European countries that supported Israel). Israel was founded in 1948 taking 54% of the land of Palestine(!!!) while the palestinians took 46% only.
Palestinians are now fighting for their land (imagine someone claiming part of your land and founding a country in it, even if you're atheist you'd fight. It's your land).
Israel wants to fulfill the promise of the "land from the Euphrates to the river Nile", also found in the Torah. in 1967 they launched an attack against Egypt, and effectively invaded Sinai (Moshe Dyan, minister of Defense of Israel, said after the attack that they're the people of the Torah, and that they've to take the land the Torah promises them). Egypt launched an attack in 1973 reclaiming most of the land, then there was the cease-fire and we got the rest peacefully.

<Witch_King>
Bin Laden is a terrorist. He admits it. I don't trust the guy. It looks like they are going to kill him one way or another. I think he needs to die, but that is just the beginning. Every terrorist in the world needs to die. All terrorist camps on earth need to be destroyed. Any government that harbors terrorists needs to be destroyed. That's the nice way. We could use nuclear weapons but we aren't going to. But than again it could happen.

Why don't you try walking in his shoes? Think as if you're Bin Laden, the U.S.A is poking its nose in everything here, and in an unfair way too. He's an extremist, he hates U.S.A, and he became a terrorist.
Now, I'm not saying he's right or that it's OK to become a terrorist for such reasons. All I'm saying is that we should search for the root of the terrorism tree, the terrorism generator.
Why was the U.S.A attacked? Why not any other country?
You know, Some american journalists said that it's a battle against democracy, freedom, power, technology,.... to the end of such nonesense. Could this be the reason? Could this drive someone to bombard himself? I don't think so.
As far as I see, it's the american policy that's generating all this terrorism. Indeed the U.S.A is the most powerful, but if it had used its powers in a fair way noone would've done such attacks.

If you destroy all the terrorist camps on earth you'll have peace for several years, until the next generation of terrorists comes.

Go for the source, Be FAIR (and at the same time, punish the terrorists)

<Witch_King>
When you get rid of your stinking criminals than we all can have a good life. I don't see why the middle east can't become more technologically advanced and wealthy.
================================================== ============
We live in a civilized world, at least I do.

Ironically, criminals that have power and money are the judges. Only poor criminals are executed.
The middle east is the biggest weapon market, rich countries sell undeveloped countries (3rd world countries or Stupid countries, call it as you like) weapons so that they kill each other and become more poor. While the rich become more rich, and then blame the poor for fighting in such a barbaric way, or more precisely blame it on their religions!
Where is this civilized world? I don't see it!

Isn't the U.S.A a criminal? Look at what they've done to the (1)Indians (2)Japan (Hiroshima & Nagazaki) (3)Vietnam (4)Iraq (A nation killed for its leader) (5)Palestine (6)Egypt (in the war of 1973, when we're reclaiming our land. We attacked on the 6th of october and successfully destroyed most of the Israelian armies in our land, on 14th october U.S.A supplied Israel by a huge air force that was simply too much for us to bear, the U.S force eradicated a whole tank legion (which was without air cover), a tank legion that's freeing the land of Egypt, conquered by Israel)

What about England? England enslaved half of this world, it's advancement is built on other countries' shoulders. When they invaded Egypt, they took all our richs for themselves. High-Salary jobs were for the English only. We've been conquered for so many years (70-80), England stole those years from us. How can we get them back? If we had a chance to live free all those years, many things would have changed.
(I don't hold anything against anyone from the UK now, sins aren't inherited. I'm just saying that no one's that clean. We should know ourselves better before blaming others)
France did the same thing here, Italy too.
What about the slaves from Africa? The miserable continent? Has U.S or Europe paid for that?

<Witch_King>
That would be great if that section of earth fell off into the ocean and became submerged.

Where is the rich world going to sell weapons then?

<Witch_King>
There are plenty of tools and education available now in the world that we do not need to babysit a nation or a race of people. I don't see why they can't pick up like the Japaneese and take their share of benefits.

Man, you remind me of some Queen that told the hungry people to eat biscuits/cake (can anyone remind me of her name please?). You don't see things from our side, maybe you have the tools but we don't.

Tools need money, money doesn't pop out of thin air (and we have loans, you know). And we're not allowed to buy many things, there is something known as forbidden technology that we can't be allowed to have.

<Witch_King>
commerce, space exploration, and human rights and freedoms. At this stage the USA is the workhorse for most of this.

Commerce and space exploration agreed. Now what's that about human rights and freedoms? Maybe you meant "The american/israelian human's rights" & chaos (instead of freedom)?

The world will live with or without America, no one (and no country) is important enough to stop life. Maybe it'd be better, who knows?!

<Witch_King>
All that medicine would have traveled to the Middle East, we would have all benefited from it.

Sadly, this is untrue. The medecine would've travelled here with extremely high prices (given that it's going to travel). Many kinds of medicine aren't sold here, and we've to buy them from outside with extremely high prices.

<Series X4 1_0>
all the countries that are controlled by dangerous, primitive religions and beliefs, because they can't keep them for themselves. Some religons clearly says that to die in the "holy war" is their highest wish. They see everybody who are not like themselves as Satan (which means the rest of the world).

Examples please, what religions/countries are you talking about. Of all the religions I've known and read about, there's only one that orders people to conquer and kill and consider themselves a higher race.
I'm saying this because most people judge religions without knowing anything about them, so don't get me wrong.

<Series X4 1_0>
We should be glad that they are like monkeys over there - they don't know what a computer is. Their laws are like the ones we had thousands of years ago

1 - This reminds me of something Hitler said about the black people.
They're not like monkeys, and if they were you should've been sorry and should've felt ashamed of yourself for laughing at them instead of helping them.
2 - I'd like to know what you know about their laws.

We're all brothers, we should help & guide each other.

700 muslims did not die in the wtc attacks, a much smaller number is more likely. New york`s bussiness district has ALOT of jews, they have a muesem not blocks away from the attack site.


I dont believe that Islam is evil...

America has obligation to nobody, we are a christian nation and we choose to have an obligation to Isreal, because they are Gods "chosen" people, and they are also the only democracy in the middle east.


Isreal says, we are already successfull, and if you help us we will do things your way.

Most arab states(not all) say, we are not successfull, and if you are going to help us you will do it our way.


Isreal, does not make it policy to kill civilians. Can you say the same about Palestine. Oh? what about the 6 day war, wouldnt want to get that little skirmish in the records now would we coder?

Yes, egypt attacked isreal, isreal attacks back, egypt attacks back, everyone blames isreal Funny isnt it?


first you say that the hijackers were not muslims, then you say they werent very good muslims.

"Israel was founded in 1948 taking 54% of the land of Palestine(!!!) while the palestinians took 46% only. "

considering that the major ethniticity in those parts of palestine were Jewish, it is no wonder they no longer wanted to be oppressed by Islamic made laws.


(1)Indians - indians died mostly from diseases

(2)Japan (Hiroshima & Nagazaki) - military towns, 1 million deaths estimated on both sides otherwise
(3)Vietnam- country cried for help, we failed

(4)Iraq (A nation killed for its leader) - a leader that was developing weapons to kill people like me.

(5)Palestine - lol

(6)Egypt - right....


dont talk about the fact that america sends more food to 3rd world countrys then the rest of the world combined!


"We're all brothers, we should help & guide each other."

- and invade isreal for wanting independence.

Do not forget that 2000 years ago isreal was in control by the jews, arabs took it over, so shut the hell up moron!

"1 - This reminds me of something Hitler said about the black people.
They're not like monkeys, and if they were you should've been sorry and should've felt ashamed of yourself for laughing at them instead of helping them. "

heh, I didnt read this part, but this is your biggest mistake EVER.


now if I remember right(which I do) Hitler tried invading Arab states for oil, britain the country that created Isreal, defended these places. If it werent for britain, your life would consist of concentration camps, and a feeling of inferiority. British people died for arabs... the same people that have no respect.

Britain during world war 2, could have easly joined Hitler, ensuring victory, why? Britain is made up of an aryan people.

in 1963 egypt invaded isreal.... read up on history... and not selectivly.


these terrorist attacks were not about isreal, they were about saudi arabia, if in fact it was the falt of Osama Bin laden, which even the pakistani government(an arab nation) believes. Osama bin laden is angry because america is inside Saudi Arabia collecting oil. This is funny, because we helped liberate afghanistan from russia

>The middle east is the biggest weapon market, rich countries sell undeveloped countries (3rd world countries or Stupid countries, call it as you like) weapons so that they kill each other and become more poor. While the rich become more rich, and then blame the poor for fighting in such a barbaric way, or more precisely blame it on their religions!
Where is this civilized world? I don't see it! <

OK let me get this straight we sell the middle east weapons to Protect themselves and they kill each other instead. But we are at fault.


Koshare summed everything else up pretty well.

>America has obligation to nobody, we are a christian nation and we choose to have an obligation to Isreal, because they are Gods "chosen" people, and they are also the only democracy in the middle east. <

LOL. Its going to be a long long long long time before the majority of this country develops some intelligence.

hehe - if you hate him now Recycle Bin (hah! no *nix for you!) then you would've killed him during the famed linux argument.

wasn't it something like "I'd jump on you and start pounding, business suit and all..Then I'd run you over with my 4x4 as jeeves washes my million dollar house" ~ sorry to dredge up the past, but it was hilarious.

Someone thinking of anything else then Greece when he hears
Athens is probably quite uninformed. And to tell the truth, I
have never seen a citizen of a civilized country to be as
uninformed about world geography and politics as the average
american. You guys don't even care about what is going on
outside you little country, until it happens to scratch your own
interests. And most of you don't even know where your
interests lie. You probably know all your forty-something
presidents, but you know **** about how the world looks
outside of your own borders.

You are a super power... but you are not alone, and you should
better watch your step. Don't step on too many peoples toes
while stumbling around.

True in most cases. I just want to laugh my head off when my mom starts saying stuff about what happened, 'cuz she makes it sound like we're this huge virgin country - all pur and sweet, never committed terrorist acts against another country. Yeh right. But That doesn't mean that we're all like that..hell, and I'm only 15. I mean, I love my country and all, but we're not *totally* innocent. maybe those people who died were (which is what ........es us off most...) but their government wasn't totally without sin. Then again, everyone makes mistakes. We've made ours already (not that we'll never make more ). We've paid dearly. Now the people who forced us to pay are gonna have to answer in triplicate.

You might notice, that wars are never fought because of
religion.

have you ever heard of the Crusades?

did you know how much money was plunder during the crusades, it may have been blamed on by religion... but look at this saying from the crusades

"Kill a jew save your soul"


now, anybody that goes around saying they are christians, wanting to kill for money, and on top of that wanting to kill a jew, are definitly not following the rules set forth by God and Jesus.

"rue in most cases. I just want to laugh my head off when my mom starts saying stuff about what happened, 'cuz she makes it sound like we're this huge virgin country - all pur and sweet, never committed terrorist acts against another country. Yeh right. But That doesn't mean that we're all like that..hell, and I'm only 15. I mean, I love my country and all, but we're not *totally* innocent. maybe those people who died were (which is what ........es us off most...) but their government wasn't totally without sin. Then again, everyone makes mistakes. We've made ours already (not that we'll never make more ). We've paid dearly. Now the people who forced us to pay are gonna have to answer in triplicate."

you made some very good points, america has done wrong, but we try to make things right... Even if along the way we do more wrong things.


"LOL. Its going to be a long long long long time before the majority of this country develops some intelligence."
opinion has little to do with intelligence, mostly wisdom.

if a nation was Chritian\Jewish or a democracy, I will look upon them for guidance, as they do me. If a country is ran by a tyrant we are not going to feel to happy.


Remember always, that Islam is built of Judaism, and says that Arabs are the superiors. The torah says that Jews have more responsiblity and hardships to endure.


"You guys don't even care about what is going on
outside you little country, until it happens to scratch your own
interests."

actually, that is what you would like to believe. I have cared about the happenings in the UN (durban in particular you do know what durban is oh wise man?)


and for one thing, much more happens in america in a single day then any country in europe. America, Japan, UK, Russia, Germany, and China are the worlds most important countrys. I plan on learning Japanese and German in the forseeable future.

did you know I lived on the Navajo Indian reservation for 2 years? I have lived in the equavalent of a third world country. Phones take 6 months to install, no tv whatsoever except 1 channel. Alcohol is illegal, 60% of the population are alcholics. What happened to me there was interesting. My mom was a counselour at the most prestigious school in the Indian reservation. The navajos wanted their own people to teach there, but as most that actually had educations wanted out, the salary for counselours was ridiculous. Anyways, I could drag on... A town of 4000 people is where I lived only 100 or so where not Navajo, when I left the town, 5 White people were dead(they killed their dogs too out of spite) from Navajos wanting white people to stop teaching at the schools. I saw more in those 2 years then you will ever see in your lifetime. I lived in a world that dogs with rabies were a common sight, drug users/alcoholics where more common then the average citizen. I even once saw a car that was right behind my moms get hit by a Cow, the person surived, but if you have ever seen a car run into a cow you wont need to see anything else in your life to be shocked.

"in 1963 egypt invaded isreal.... read up on history... and not selectivly. "

btw , egypt invaded israel only to regain what israel has taken from them ...

" 6/12 Jun 1967 - Israel occupies Golan Heights (annexed 1981; fomerly Syrian);
Sinai peninsula and Gaza strip (both formerly Egyptian);
West Bank and East Jerusalem (annexed 30 Jul 1980;
both formerly Jordanian).
25 Apr 1982 Sinai peninsula fully restored to Egypt. "

from http://www.geocities.com/bcahoon.geo/Israel.htm

Koshare you should read your facts///

oops missed out this bit
"29 Oct 1956 - 1957 Israel occupies Sinai peninsula. "

lol,didnt hear about that, likely that they had their reasons as America would frown on an unprovoked attack. And since we seem to be going continually farther in history lets talk about Egyptians enslaving the Isrealie people 5000 years ago. Lets talk about Germany, Russia, Britain, Egypt, and any other country in the past 100 years that invaded another country. Lets talk about Southern Plantation owners in america.

America is not a virgin country.
Isreal is not a virgin country.
Egypt is not a virgin country.

Lets all get over it. or not....



1929 Hebron Jews massacred by Arab militants.
1936-39 Anti-Jewish riots instigated by Arab militants.
1939-45 World War II; Holocaust in Europe.
1947 UN proposes the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in the Land.

1948- End of British Mandate (14 May)
State of Israel proclaimed (14 May).

Israel invaded by five Arab states (15 May)

War of Independence (May 1948-July 1949)
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) established


hmmm, on day after Isreal was established it was attacked by 5 Arab states, do I win? I dont think you can go back any farther if the country wasnt established (unless you go back 1000 years)

ok, lets continue....


1949 Armistice agreements signed with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon.
Jerusalem divided under Israeli and Jordanian rule.
First Knesset (parliament) elected.
Israel admitted to United Nations as 59th member.
1948-52 Mass immigration from Europe and Arab countries.
1956 Sinai Campaign
1962 Adolf Eichmann tried and executed in Israel for his part in the Holocaust.
1964 National Water Carrier completed, bringing water from Lake Kinneret in the north to the semi-arid south.
1967 Six-Day War, Jerusalem reunited.
1968-70 Egypt's War of Attrition against Israel
1973 Yom Kippur War
1975 Israel becomes an associate member of the European Common Market.
1977 Likud forms government after Knesset elections, end of 30 years of Labor rule.
Visit of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat to Jerusalem.
1978 Camp David Accords include framework for comprehensive peace in the Middle East and proposal for Palestinian self-government.
1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty signed.
Prime Minister Menachem Begin and President Anwar Sadat awarded Nobel Peace Prize.
1981 Israel Air Force destroys Iraqi nuclear reactor just before it is to become operative.
1982 Israel's three-stage withdrawal from Sinai completed.
Operation Peace for Galilee removes PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) terrorists from Lebanon.
1984 National unity government (Llikud and Labor) formed after elections.
Operation Moses, immigration of Jews from Ethiopia.
1985 Free Trade Agreement signed with United States.
1987 Widespread violence (intifada) starts in Israeli-administered areas.
1988 Likud government in power following elections.
1989 Four-point peace initiative proposed by Israel.
Start of mass immigration of Jews from former Soviet Union.
1991 Israel attacked by Iraqi Scud missiles during Gulf war.
Middle East peace conference convened in Madrid;
Operation Solomon, airlift of Jews from Ethiopia.
1992 Diplomatic relations established with China and India.
New government headed by Yitzhak Rabin of Labor party.
1993 Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements for the Palestinians signed by Israel and PLO, as representative of the Palestinian people.
1994 Implementation of Palestinian self-government in Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
Full diplomatic relations with the Holy See.
Morocco and Tunisia interest offices set up.
Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty signed.
Rabin, Peres, Arafat awarded Nobel Peace Prize.
1995 Broadened Palestinian self-government implemented in West Bank and Gaza Strip; Palestinian Council elected.
Prime Minister Rabin assassinated at peace rally.
Shimon Peres becomes prime minister.
1996 Fundamentalist Arab terrorism against Israel escalates.
Operation Grapes of Wrath, retaliation for Hizbullah terrorists' attacks on northern Israel.
Trade representation offices set up in Oman and Qatar.
Likud forms government after Knesset elections.
Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime minister.
Omani trade representation office opened in Tel Aviv.
1997 Hebron Protocol signed by Israel and the PA.
1998 Israel celebrates its 50th anniversary.
Israel and the PLO sign the Wye River Memorandum to facilitate implementation of the Interim Agreement.



it is bad when a nationality that has around 300 million members doesnt have its own country, and when it wants its own country the size of New Jersey, in a land where the majority of it is already Jewish it is too bad.

I win, do I get a sticker?
http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00kt0
steve_i83 get up on your facts before accusing me of not knowing mine....

oh, I read up some more on world history, Isreal was the first country ever attacked 1 day after it was established, this led to occupation of parts of Isreal. Isreal got help, and it seems the world did not care what Isreal did in retaliation.

sorry, didnt realise I wasnt logged in last two posts where from me.

The best religion is the Tuxism(not registered yet).
We (well there's two of us now, but I hope this religion will spread allover the Earth) don't care about other religions, because there's always a small Tux in each of us...

Praise the Great Tux!!!


LOL

Btw. Guess what the subject ment.

Answer:
I was writing something(I'm not sure what), but then suddenly the Tux appeared in front of me saying: Must v..... and then someone opened the Windows(c)(r)(tm) and it sucked it deep in the Great Harddrive...

Well... I'm realy bored(and tired), so don't care about any of my writings.........