What is your opinion of him?
What is your opinion of him?
One of the best presidents US has seen. The time for his work to be properly acknowledged will come. He pumped up US economy and moved on the international scene without lending his ears to militarists. He failed on Middle-East only because of lack of time.
He was on his prime when he had to step down from the White House. The fact that democracy tries to protect itself against dictatorships does create this paradox where sometimes the best candidate and the sure winner can't run for the position. Sad...
As for the ML affair... with due respect to his wife, fact is I would rather much prefer to have a player has president than to have a warmonger. Make love not war...
I find it appalling that the majority of you voted for Clinton.
That suggests you are liberal idealistic children.
That's a fact, not a putdown. Liberals have child-like thought processes, not hindered by reality or the hard facts of life. Or perhaps you're socialistic swine.
Clinton was a liar, a thief, a cheat, an adulterer, a crook, and had 51 people _murdered_ (and that's _after_ he became president). Oh yeah, he also married Hillary. For her part, Hillary had a child named Chelsea, whose father was Vince Voster-- that's why he was waxed. I find it particularly interesting that the paperwork that proved that relationship existed was destroyed in the Murrah building before being publicized.
Every one of his speeches were a rereading of his previous speech-- all lies and filled with "what the public wants to hear"-- no substance or truth.
Now, when you are old enough to get a good paying job, you can thank Clinton and his ilk because half your income (literally half of every paycheck you get) goes to the government. And to think, the Founding Fathers revolted (Boston Tea Party) over a fraction-penny tax.
Ideals are just that-- ideals. Something unattainable because of circumstance, discourse, immutable physical law, human nature, etc.
Another thing, that demonstrates the liberal "child-like" mentality is that it accepts _no_ responsibility for its actions. It is always someone elses fault! Wrong. Only children refuse to take responsibility. By extension, it is not the government's place to coddle you, care for you, or wipe you nose and tie your shoes. Unfortunately, liberals keep wanting to give government more power, giving up more freedoms.
You cannot legislate evil away. In any truly free society, people are occassionally going to get hurt because somebody took advantage of that freeness.
If we change our way because the twin towers came down, then terrorism has won the battle. If you are a liberal or a socialist, then by defacto standard you are a terrorist. And are fundamentally opposed to everything that made America what it is today.
The reason people called America "The Melting Pot" is because people immigrated and became Americans. One language, one purpose, one culture. Strength does _not_ come from diversity. United we stand, divided we fall.
You think Clinton cut taxes in any way? Think again-- every proposed tax-cut that a liberal has ever come up with, is a small reduction in a huge increase. Not an actual cut. Look at the math, this will help you understand:
Current Tax Rate: 10%
Legislated Tax Increase: 25%
Proposed Tax Cut: 5%
Result: 10% + 25% = 35% New Tax Rate - 5% tax cut = New 30% Tax Rate
So we went from a 10% tax rate to a 30% tax rate-- wow, what a savings! And yes, that _is_ how the US Government does it. It's called borrowing from the future. It was dreamt up by former President L.B.Johnson- liberal.
THAT IS NOT A TAX CUT-- IT'S AN INCREASE!
Answer me this: Why should I be paying taxes for the public school system when I don't have a child in school any longer?
Thanks to liberals, no one in America actually owns any property. It's rented or loaned. Now if you think I'm wrong, look at this:
If you don't pay your taxes, the Feds will came and take everything you own-- who really owns it? The Feds do.
Thanks to liberals, the Miranda was struck down. Most people are exposed to America Justice from what they see on TV-- I have news for you-- what you see on TV is based solely on California Law. It doesn't wokr that way anywwhere else in America. Thanks to liberals, police now no longer require search warrants. they can go and do and look anywhere they please.
Sadly-- liberals and socialists are terrorists. Terrorists against Liberty and Individuality, Life, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Wow, that's really wonderful, Sayeh. Truly, truly wonderful.
Tell me - John Birch Society, KKK, or just some ultra right wing whackjob?
Oh, and one more _critical_ little thing your teachers fail to mention in your schoolrooms, in reply to Mario's statement:
>> The fact that democracy tries to protect itself against dictatorships
WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA. That is MOB RULE. We have something called a REPUBLIC. That is why there is an electoral college.
Clinton was the worst president in the history of the United States of America. An embarassment unparalleled. He can't even lead his own penis; how can he be expected to lead a nation? What a joke!
The man raised taxes, cut down the military, expanded the size of government (1100+ new departments were created under his rule), and royally screwed the pooch in foreign policy. Abridged freedoms left and right.
Our job is not that of "band-aid" for the world. We've given trillions away and forgiven debts as big. And what do we get out of it? We're hated because our people live so well. Other countries are jealous. How can this be if we are the "infidel" or the "foreign devil"-- Sorry folks-- your way doesn't work. Ours does. Wake Up!
>> He pumped up US economy
cr@p-- you are uninformed. The reason our economy sucks right now is because of what CLINTON DID. You people think the economy changes overnight? No. It takes months, years for some waves to build and change and start affecting. Fact of the matter is, all the good economic press he got was in truth created by his predecessor-- Bush senior.
Bush junior is having to clean up Clinton's mess right now. And that's the way the presidency has gone since 1972. Liberals spend and waste, and build big government and tear down military (the only reason other countries are kept in line), and then a conservative is elected that has to clean it all up. They spend their term doing so, at great expense. It is always more expensive to rebuild. Because of this, a liberal gets elected again, because people have such a short term memory, they can't see cause and effect.
the only thing the Dumbocrats did correctly, is they picked the appropriate mascot-- a JackAss.
>> Tell me - John Birch Society, KKK, or just some ultra right wing whackjob?
Uh, no. Actually I just keep to myself quietly most of the time. I just let off steam here. I can yack. And I'm not all that right-wing. I despise the KKK, stupid racist swine. I absolutely will not fault any person for the color of their skin. That stance is absurd beyond belief. Besides, most people think Jesus was white-- boy would they be surprised to see just how black he was.
As for birch, the only birch I work with is the one I put across a female bottom regularly.
> And I'm not all that right-wing.
Really... What would you describe yourself as, then?While I agree with the fact the economics don't change in the blink of an eye, you can't say that prosperity during Clinton's presidency was totally the result of the elder Bush. Maybe partially, yes, but there's nothing Bush alone did htat would have accounted for the economic climate of the mid to late 90s. How about the mess that Bush senior had to clean up? Was that in some way Clinton's fault, or was that Carter? Was the economic climate some 10 years after Carter left office his fault, or could that maybe be Reagan, who spent more money than every other president put together?Quote:
The reason our economy sucks right now is because of what CLINTON DID. You people think the economy changes overnight? No. It takes months, years for some waves to build and change and start affecting. Fact of the matter is, all the good economic press he got was in truth created by his predecessor-- Bush senior.
> The man raised taxes
Yeah, because nobody else has ever done that, especially never Republicans. "Read my lips - no new taxes".... Hmm...
> royally screwed the pooch in foreign policy
Right, and Dubya's actions with Kyoto were something all Americans should be proud of.
> Now, when you are old enough to get a good paying job, you can thank Clinton and his ilk because half your income (literally half of every paycheck you get) goes to the government.
I make a decent enough wage, and I know I sure as hell don't give half my check to the government, state or federal.
hear hear govt....
but that aside... without gettin on the soapbox with Sayeh... a great deal of Clinton's economical success was due to what Bush senior put in place during his years in office. Did you happen to notice the downturn that began at the end of his tenure? Regardless... it's not necessarily just the president's fault/glory for how the economy is running... I don't know why everyone feels like they have to place the blame on one man.
and having said that... maybe if Clinton could have kept his dick in his pants, and spent a little more time with the country's issues... maybe I would have liked him more.
Like I said before, some of this could be attrbitued to Bush, but Clinton has to take some credit for it - he was in office too long for it to be totally Bush's doing. Besides, the economy's largely cyclical anyways.Quote:
a great deal of Clinton's economical success was due to what Bush senior put in place during his years in office. Did you happen to notice the downturn that began at the end of his tenure? Regardless... it's not necessarily just the president's fault/glory for how the economy is running... I don't know why everyone feels like they have to place the blame on one man.
> maybe if Clinton could have kept his dick in his pants
I hate that this keeps being brought up - you think he was the first president to have an affair? He's just the only one to get caught. I'm not defending him - what he did was wrong and gross (I mean, sure you're a pasty white dude, but you're the President - you should be able to get better chicks than Monia), but I think it's really weak that the first thing out of so many people's mouths when they criticize Clinton is "He had an affair!"
>> Right, and Dubya's actions with Kyoto were
>> something all Americans should be proud of.
Actually yes, we should be. The Kyoto Protocol is based on the premise of global warming being a man made issue-- what a joke. In the first place, real scientific proof has been delivered (and ignored by tree huggers) that proves the ozone isn't being hurt, and secondly, America is far cleaner than any other country out there. Try working with facts for a change instead of perceptions.
Just a couple:
- Ozone (O3) is created primarily from UV rays striking the upper atmosphere. More Ozone is created everyday than all of man's technology can eliminate.
- If the earth were really warming, ocean water would evaporate at a greater rate, creating monsoons everywhere, all the time.
The "global warming" issue was a dream-up to help government gain more power and financial clout. If you want to research the truth to your satisfaction, then I suggest you surf google.
I mean, the only reason global warming is touted at all is because it was something the media could grab onto without having to listen to reason. A perfect example of this is medical science and stomach ulcers. It has been scientifically proven that stomach ulcers are the result of a virus. And can be completely cured with one proper treatment. But I bet your doctor won't tell you that if you go to get treated for one.
I like that 'dubya'-- cute.
>> I make a decent enough wage, and I know I sure as hell
>> don't give half my check to the government, state or
Apparently not-- you must be in the $13/hour range. I suggest you take your paystub and peak at the rate. I know that I (in the low-middle class white collar) pay 37% federal (income, fica, soc-sec) and atleast 12% state.-- Gee 37+12 = 49%.
You know, all you really have to do is follow the money trail. I didn't say I was a Republican. I said I was a conservative. Most politicians are alike. Greedy. The fact that politicians are not subject to the same laws you and I are is an interesting fact few people know.
That's right. You are a class B citizen (as am I). Although our society wasn't supposed to have social classes. A police officer, and an attorney and a doctor are examples of class 'A' citizens. Did you ever wonder why they are legally required to always use their title? An attorney is Esquire, etc.
Ooops, back to my usual refrain-- learn how things really work. Sorry fellas, I forgot you just like to bandy ideals about without getting into the nuts and bolts.
If he is doing all this in favor of his nation, it sounds like a perfect job description for a politician. Face it, you don't want a politician to be fair... you want him to cheat, lie, steal, assault and whatever else he can get away with diplomatically or by force, as long as it benefits your own well being.Quote:
a liar, a thief, a cheat, an adulterer, a crook, and had 51 people _murdered_ (and that's _after_ he became president).
Cheating is his ........ing job... though I agree he should have taken this a little less literaly.
And no I didn't say Clinton was responsible for anything prior to his presidency.
But it it is true that Reagan spent most of his presidency cleaning up after Carter. Carter was the worst joke this country ever knew. He alone is responsible for the Deficit being what it is today.
In fact, why don't you go look at the numbers since 1960 and see what the deficit was and where it's increased. I think you'll be surprised at the dynamic change it underwent because of carter.
I remember when the deficit ran in the millions, not the trillions.
I think Clinton was a decent president (or at least had a good government behind him). If not, he wouldn't have been in office so long. One thing he was very good at, as my high school English teacher said when he first got elected, is public speaking. My teacher was quick to note that JFK was an incredible speaker as well (she might be a bit partial to English though). However, I find it funny how uneducated people blamed Bush for the bad economy before he even had a chance to make any policies.
I find myself in agreement with Sayeh on everything else.
Sayeh, I respect your opinion and all, but guess what, we NEED taxes. Do you want your grandchildren (if you have any?) to get a good free education? Education costs $ and guess what pays for it, taxes. Do you want people invading America at ease? Of course not. Guess what pays for you defense, TAXES. People should stop *****ing about taxes, pay them, and have a country that can improve and prosper.
You are aware, I hope, that ozone deterioration and global warming are two completely unrelated issues? As in, they have nothing to do with each other? For that reason, I won't try to refute your ozone comment, although that problem has mostly been solved with the invention of CFC substitutes anyway.Quote:
Originally posted by Sayeh
The Kyoto Protocol is based on the premise of global warming being a man made issue-- what a joke. In the first place, real scientific proof has been delivered (and ignored by tree huggers) that proves the ozone isn't being hurt, and secondly, America is far cleaner than any other country out there.
Certainly there'd be more evaporation, and more storms, but "monsoons everywhere" is a ridiculous exaggeration.Quote:
- If the earth were really warming, ocean water would evaporate at a greater rate, creating monsoons everywhere, all the time.
Now, here are a few things we would see:
- Higher average temperatures at ground stations
- Melting and retreat of continental glaciers
- Movement of temperate species towards the poles
And, all of these things have been widely observed.
And, personally, I thought Clinton was a good president.