VB vs. C

This is a discussion on VB vs. C within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; To add to Ober561's point: On the VB Explorer forums, there are about 100,000 members. I've been programming in VB ...

  1. #46
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    To add to Ober561's point:

    On the VB Explorer forums, there are about 100,000 members.

    I've been programming in VB for about 10 years. Though I like what I've learned so far in C, I find that VB still has it's merrits...

    Take for instance, VBA (a rather crude version of VB). I build databases for a living. Out of all the guys I work with, I am the only one that writes code behind my database, all the others use Wizards to create a generic database with queries and such.

    As far as commercial software, Forte is an example. The company I work for is a health insurance company. They use a Forte application to allow our Customer Service reps. the ability to browse and modify our member information... this application was written entirely in VB (with the exception of a handful of components that were written in Java).

    The only drawback I see with VB is that you are required to distribute 6 basic .dll files with your application (unless the target machine already has them) whereas with C, you only need to distribute a .dll if you use something that is not native to Windows.

    Believe it or not, some of the stuff you get from Microsoft is VB dependent... next time you install a Microsoft product, watch the installation and see if it installs MSVBM60.dll - that is one of the main VB redistributables.

    Even better, delete this file from your Windows directory... and see which applications you have no longer run...
    Last edited by XenoCodex Admin; 07-06-2002 at 11:52 AM.
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  2. #47
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
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    borko_b......

    *sigh*... you're a moron... there... a simple, no beating around the bushes flame... you're a freakin moron.

  3. #48
    Banned borko_b's Avatar
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    >>... you're a moron...

    What the hell do you think you ARE ?? huh!

    ...retard...

  4. #49
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >Do you sell it for money? or you're selling the services WITH this program...

    We have programs that are written in VB. They are used daily and generate income. So I guess it is a commercial language.

    >And stop talking about RAD please
    >the RAD is the worst thing that could a programmer rely on..

    Agreed. But sadly, programmers are paid for results, not for good practices. And in real life, time is money and RAD is less time to pay for. So RAD is a very big deal in the business world and should be taken into account when judging the commercial value of something.

    You still have to show how easy and fast you would implement my example in MFC...
    hth
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  5. #50
    Banned borko_b's Avatar
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    >>....my example ....
    Ermm.. Which example... Sorry..

    (the one with the tabs?)

  6. #51
    TK
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    VB is history. Microsoft who wrote VB in C has now wrote the .net framework in C++ and that's what they are using now. It's a lot different than VB6, because all of the code is managed. At any rate, Microsoft itself has widely proclaimed that VB was limited to high end Windows Forms and was not flexible or expressive enough for building software architectures. Another poor quality of VB is that it only runs on the Microsoft operating system. It is a vendor lanuage, there is no standard, so you will find that it keep changing very frequently, it even dissapears and manifests itself in a totally different form such as .net. Sure it is a good language for quickly creating windows applications, the reason is because it is owned by Microsoft, who owns the OS and knows the hidden API. How could they not make it good for creating Windows applications. The largest problem however is that the programmer is a fish on the end of the Microsoft fishing line, VB has not been used for serious high performance applications and it simply does not exist outside the Microsoft OS. This reminds me of those people that claim that Cobol is the most powerful language. These languages are not light weight, they do not allow you to have control over memory or even OOP features, they were made for a limited purpose, which can be duplicated by C or C++ if but not the other way around. Ofcouse this is true because everything on your Microsoft OS lies ontop of a C foundation.

  7. #52
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >(the one with the tabs?)

    Yes, the one with the tabs and multi-colored different font textboxes.
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  8. #53
    flashing vampire black's Avatar
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    Wink

    Hey, guys, why discuss a thing such long time ?

    we shouldnt debate which one is better. One is tool and One is language, how could we compare them ? Just choosing the one you like and enjoying it.
    Never end on learning~

  9. #54
    looking for the truth moemen ahmed's Avatar
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    we shouldnt debate which one is better. One is tool and One is language, how could we compare them ? Just choosing the one you like and enjoying it.
    describing VB as a tool is a real **** !! i dont have to write anymore
    Programming is a high logical enjoyable art for both programer and user !!

  10. #55
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    Lightbulb

    >>This reminds me of those people that claim that Cobol is the most powerful language. These languages are not light weight, they do not allow you to have control over memory or even OOP features, they were made for a limited purpose, which can be duplicated by C or C++ if but not the other way around.


    Hey pal. We who support VB (or COBOL for that matter) do not claim that it is the most powerful language in the world. But you must realize that C++ isn't too.

    Look at it this way:

    -> C++ gives you greater control, but it sacrifices time and it takes too much work.

    -> VB gives you limited control, but it's sufficient enough to get you to develop any complicated high-end useful application software.


    >>describing VB as a tool is a real ****


    Are you actually saying that VB is some kind of feces? You're too ideological. Get down to the real world pal. If you're developing an application that does not necessarily need the vast power of C++, then you have to take advantage of a technology that will allow you to build software more easily and quickly (thereby increasing your profit's bottom line if you're in business), and that technology is VB.
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  11. #56
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Sure it is a good language for quickly creating windows applications, the reason is because it is owned by Microsoft, who owns the OS and knows the hidden API.
    What hidden API do you mean?....if you mean the Kernel mode functions, then yes they are mostly undocumented, but that's hardly a problem as the full User mode API is well documented......and that api is more than enough for 99% of windows programs.....

    And if you need lower level access there are other methods.....the WDM (for drivers) is pretty well documented (to my knowledge).......

    Just because the OS doesn't give you 100% access to its internals, it doesn't mean the average programmer is hindered...in fact it's often a blessing as you know that other programs that your app shares the system with don't operate at a more privileged level than you....if so, they might cause problems which can stop your app from functioning properly

  12. #57
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    Thumbs up

    >>Just because the OS doesn't give you 100% access to its internals, it doesn't mean the average programmer is hindered...in fact it's often a blessing as you know that other programs that your app shares the system with don't operate at a more privileged level than you....if so, they might cause problems which can stop your app from functioning properly


    Yah I agree. In other words, you don't need to know everything about your system just to be anle to make superb applications. Leave that "need-to-know-everything" to the experts. After all, not all programmers are as talented as some of our colleagues here, so VB's compatibility with the Windows OS is something worth recognizing. Am I right?
    All men are created equal. But some are more equal than others.

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  13. #58
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    Originally posted by moemen ahmed


    describing VB as a tool is a real **** !! i dont have to write anymore
    sorry man, I dont meant to insult VB, in formally words, it is a software made by Microsoft just as VC, right ?

    I just wanna say, VC and VB are both softs, and BASIC and C are languages, we could discuss the diference between 2 languages or 2 softs, but it is not fit compareing those which belong to different class.

    As I said, it happens that each person's hobby is not the same. So, choose the one you like, that's OK.
    Never end on learning~

  14. #59
    TK
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    First of all, when you learn Win32, you learn an interface, not the implementation. It is impossible to know if they are giving you the full Win32 interface, and I have heard from Windows Internal writers that infact the full interface is not provided. So long as you are 100% Microsoft dependent there is not escape from being screwed, but at least you are not being royally screwed like the VB programmers.

  15. #60
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TK
    First of all, when you learn Win32, you learn an interface, not the implementation. It is impossible to know if they are giving you the full Win32 interface, and I have heard from Windows Internal writers that infact the full interface is not provided. So long as you are 100% Microsoft dependent there is not escape from being screwed, but at least you are not being royally screwed like the VB programmers.
    But I dont think you are being screwed at all......the whole point is that 99% of the time you dont need to know these undocumented functions........the published API is more than enough and it provides almost all the fuctionality that you will ever need.....

    Anyway...its not as if M$ has a list of secret functions......these functions are easy to find...its just that the documentation for their use is not provided......

    Open up Dependancy Walker (I'm not dure if I got this with MSVC or maybe from the NET....but its easy to find) and load NTDLL.dll...in here you'll find loads of undocumented functions......they are there...they are no secret.......its just that access to these fuctions is given from published APIs.....CreateFile maps to NtCreateFile....so on...so on.....

    There's some stuff that you as the programmer will never use directly (Like the functions for direct access to Kernel Objects)...that's becuse if you did, and did it incorrectly you would stop other programs from operating properly.......and most likely cause a nasty crash....

    I dont feel screwed

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