The end of Humans....

This is a discussion on The end of Humans.... within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; damnit, forgot to log on... that was me......

  1. #16
    Registered User Jet_Master's Avatar
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    damnit, forgot to log on...
    that was me...
    I am the Alpha and the Omega!!!

  2. #17
    Prisoner of my own mind
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    Originally posted by vasanth
    Well Humans dont need to evolve.. I think we have reached a stage where we are able to create humans... Cloning!!!! Well when you clone there is no evolution the same genes are being copied... May be in future cloning will become as common as childbirth...
    Ever since there were humans there's been a method of creating new humans, its called breeding :-).

    And, why do people think that we'll be able to get cloning absolutely perfect? How are our cloning processes and subsequent cell growth processed going to be any more accurately controlled than the ones already used by biological organisms?
    The possibilty for random change still exists there by mutation and possible evolution.

    The process we're stopping\have stopped is evolution by natural selection, having removed ourselves from many of the natural selection pressures.

    And the possibility for tinkering with a genome is definately there for cloning. Just look at the steps
    Take cells from subject to be cloned.
    Take DNA from subject.
    Tinker with DNA if you like, otherwise make a clone.
    Get recently fertilised ova.
    Remove its DNA.
    Add new DNA.
    Gestate.
    Get clone\ uber-being.
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself.

  3. #18
    Nosepicker DrakkenKorin's Avatar
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    We are born to die. No if's and's or but's about it. What we do in the inbetween then is what sets us apart from everyone else.

    IMHO, cloning is not a form of evolution, as it is directed by mankind. And I am of the opinion that we are continually evolving.

    Since evolution is a change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species. If mankind is involved in natural selection, it is no longer natural, as no human is unbiased.

    Just my $.0125 worth.

  4. #19
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    I imagine the expansion of a star like the sun would happen over a very long long time. Since such is probably the case, it is very well possible that outer planets will become habitable. (i.e. gases burn off and create a useable environment)

    Imagine the expansion of the human project in the last two hundred years. It is very likely that we will have answers for these things as they come up due to the amount of knowlege we will have by that time.

    Could it be possible that we will be pure energy by that time? Could it be possible that 'Dune-like' space/time folding exists? Could it be possible that we could not even imagine our capabilities a hundred thousand years from now?

    There is still reason to live, exist, share, love, think, etc. We are not doomed yet, and our children have a unique opportunity to live a great life even though the future resources seem bleak.... humans persevere.... it is what we do.

    I do not worry about it much. Life is good. Have a beer, kick back, relax.....
    Blue

  5. #20
    Registered User NinetyFourGirl's Avatar
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    I really don't think that our future is in cloning. I mean, I'm all for the medical research of therapeutic cloning, but cloning will not help evolution in any way. Besides, we're still so far from working out all the kinks in the process. When scientists create a clone, the clone is not at all like a new being. It's cells still think it's as old as the one that was cloned.
    But sometimes I think that we're messing with things that shouldn't be messed with. We've come to a point where not only the fittest survive, and evolution isn't as efficient as it used to be. Our scientist make new discoveries faster that we can think about consequences. Science is a beautiful thing, but it's very dangerous.

  6. #21
    flashing vampire black's Avatar
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    Post Re: The end of Humans....

    Originally posted by vasanth
    What will happen after the sun dies out.. WIll the human race continue.. I think we will die out in another few thousand decades.... If so what is the meaning of our life.. We strugle so hard day to day.. Have war fight for land etc etc.. But when we see the universe we are not even a dot in it...

    the old dies, the new comes~
    Never end on learning~

  7. #22
    Its not rocket science vasanth's Avatar
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    well wats the use.... We go on breedin and one fine day we are not there...

  8. #23
    www.entropysink.com
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    Errrr... excuse me guys, I just need to go and do some serious breeding
    Last edited by RobR; 06-18-2002 at 10:42 AM.
    Visit entropysink.com - It's what your PC is made for!

  9. #24
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    "Could it be possible that we will be pure energy by that time? "

    No, not possible.

    "When scientists create a clone, the clone is not at all like a new being. It's cells still think it's as old as the one that was cloned. "

    Interesting point, but not a problem that is insurmountable. (you would think that sperm and eggs would be the same age as the man/woman.....)

    "But sometimes I think that we're messing with things that shouldn't be messed with"

    There is no "should" and "should not" in any universal sense. If a change can benefit humanity, then using it is a good thing. The "humans should not mess with 'insert scientific development here'" argument surfaces from the public who do not have an adequate understanding of science. The victorian pubic had the exact same reaction to organ transplants, we see it in todays population with cloning/genetic manipulation.

    "Our scientist make new discoveries faster that we can think about consequences"

    Science is not about application, science is about discovering how and why the world works. That knowledge is then used if people want to use it. It can be used for social good or bad.

    Having said that, many people trained in science do go into R&D to apply scientific knowledge, and society has a role to play in determining whether to hinder or encourage R&D in a particular area. The problem is that the public have a poor understanding of the issues and are swayed by the "people shouldn't be messing with this" type of argument instead of actually considering the pros and cons of a given development they often fall into hysteria.

    I would also like to point out that evolution is not the force for "advancement" that many people seem to think it is. Evolution merely makes organisms better adapted to a given environment, it is also limited by its mechanism: changes are made gradually, you cannot have arches in nature (because an arch cannot be built up gradually, an arch missing any segment is totally useless).

    What this means is that if there was a huge disaster, meteor hits Earth type stuff, it is quite possible that evolution would favour strength over intellect, further more, if an incurable disease sprang up up that could only be passed on male-> male or female -> female, society would disintergrate. Evolution would turn us back into non-social animals.

    Basically evolution does not necessarily equal intellect. Furthermore there are several potent hinderances to evolution advancing our intellect any further, 1st off many people believe that we are at our peak intellect already because any increase in brain size means a decrease in brain speed. Even if this were not the case the 2nd problem is that head size is also constrained by the size of female hips, which in turn are limited by our bipedal nature.

    It is also worth noting that certain elements of human evolution have been slowed by modern society: medicine, special-learning centres, etc.

    Genetic manipulation combined with external gestation, (ie. false wombs) could result in humans with abnormally large heads and hence higher intellects, though as previously mentioned their processing speed and reaction time would be diminised (which could counteract the advantages of having a larger cranium). Stephen Hawking talks of the above scenario in his book "The universe in a nut-shell", i must say though that i find it extremely worrying, not because it would be "weird" or "unnatural" to have humans with large heads (thats just social conditioning) but because it would make humanity fully DEPENDANT on technology, to the point where a natural disaster or a war, if large enough, could totally destroy us. (Without artificial wombs our big-headed brethren would be unable to reproduce..... bye bye human race).

    I think the future lies not so much in genetic maniplation (though un-doubtedly it will play a sizeable part; maximising genes for intellect/good looks/athleticism/etc.) but more in the interaction between computers and biology. Basically i reckon we'll all have chips in our head (not neccesarily made out of silicon mind you) that enhance our faculties, link us up to an uber version of the web, etc.

    As for surving past the death of the sun, our only chance is to leave the Earth, when the sun forms a red giant, it will expand and heat the surface of the Earth to near 3000 degrees (i think thats the figure though i might be wrong, either way its too hot for life). If we (i say "we" in the most general sense of the word, since whatever "we" are by that point "we" will certainly not resemble todays humanity) are to go on we will we have to flee to space, and find ourselves a new home.
    Last edited by Clyde; 06-18-2002 at 10:33 AM.

  10. #25
    Christian
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    >Basically evolution does not necessarily equal intellect. Furthermore there are several potent hinderances to evolution advancing our intellect any further, 1st off many people believe that we are at our peak intellect already because any increase in brain size means a decrease in brain speed. Even if this were not the case the 2nd problem is that head size is also constrained by the size of female hips, which in turn are limited by our bipedal nature.<

    >Genetic manipulation combined with external gestation, (ie. false wombs) could result in humans with abnormally large heads and hence higher intellects, though as previously mentioned their processing speed and reaction time would be diminised (which could counteract the advantages of having a larger cranium). Stephen Hawking talks of the above scenario in his book "The universe in a nut-shell", i must say though that i find it extremely worrying, not because it would be "weird" or "unnatural" to have humans with large heads (thats just social conditioning) but because it would make humanity fully DEPENDANT on technology, to the point where a natural disaster or a war, if large enough, could totally destroy us. (Without artificial wombs our big-headed brethren would be unable to reproduce..... bye bye human race).<

    As I recall we already only use a small section off are brain's abilitys. Einsten used only a few percent more and is much more inteligent then anyone here. One could only imagin the possiblites if one could use his or her full brain capacity.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  11. #26
    Registered User Scourfish's Avatar
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    You're all wrong. The true end of humans will occour when those damn dirty apes take over.

  12. #27
    Prisoner of my own mind
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    The claim over human brain usage is "humans only use 10% of their brains". What is often missed off is the rest of the sentance, "for conscious thought". A huge proportion, 40-60% appears to be entirely dedicated to seeing.

    Nearly as misquoted as "The love of money is the root of all evil"
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself.

  13. #28
    Seņor Member
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    I do not worry about it much. Life is good. Have a beer, kick back, relax.....
    Exactly. At the time being, we can't do anything to change this, so why worry about it? If it's gonna happen, so be it, at least have a good time while you're here.

  14. #29
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    >>>"Could it be possible that we will be pure energy by that time? "

    No, not possible. <<<<<


    Yes it is.
    Blue

  15. #30
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    "As I recall we already only use a small section off are brain's abilitys. "

    Nuh-uh, its a myth. Human beings use 100% of their brain, however not all of it is for concious thought; muscle control, homeostasis, sense input/processing, and a huge amount of other functions use up the rest.

    "Yes it is."

    ... no.... it's not. Do you even know what energy is?

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