Another reason not to like every whining complaining country on the planet.

This is a discussion on Another reason not to like every whining complaining country on the planet. within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by [EMOBA] [Bi'm sorry i don't see it. If you can calmly explain you point to me , ...

  1. #46
    Registered User Mario's Avatar
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    Originally posted by [EMOBA]
    [Bi'm sorry i don't see it. If you can calmly explain you point to me , i would listen.[/B]
    Let me try to be even more calm than before

    First and foremost. Don't assume that simply because I don't share the point of view I'm anti-american. I'm as anti-american as any new yorker can be. Lived there for 12 years. Although as any good american knows, new yorkers are aliens or communist or work for the firm, or all of the above

    As for my point-of-view, it is obvious that lack of canadian timber would not destroy US economy. I used it to constitute the fact that economics revolve around trade and without trade there's no economics, no matter what the country produces. But it's also a possibility... think about it. Timber is a prime substance for world economics. Surely as not important as it was in the past, but it still moves the world. If US buys timber from Canada, it's not because Canada has beatiful eyes or because is poor and US wants to help. It's because they need their timber. Countries have been built around tea (surely this rings a bell to you) and have been nearly destroyed around coffee, sugar, potatoes, rice, .... The idea here is: Oil may as well be the rich product, but it's the fundamental products that really move the world. Don't underestimate their importance.

    If you read your original post carefully you will notice that words like crutch don't help you defend your position. It's an outright lie (no pun intended). There's no world crutch when it comes to economy. There may as well be a political one, though.

    Also, ask those same question you did there to any economist and he will say to you, america would collapse. The world would follow of course (like if the Asian market collpased for instance). But the bottom line is, the world would keep their trade and emerge, while US would have to rebuild itself.

    So, again... take care of the comparisons you make.
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  2. #47
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    Well, the US is the biggest bear in the woods. Not the only bear, but the biggest. Or if you prefer, the T Rex among stegosaurus's and pterodactyls.
    Lots of stereotypes about the US have some validity, ranging from a tiny overblown bit to pretty much dead on criticism. But if the US wasn't the biggest bear in the woods, it wouldn't be attracting so much attention. There are plenty of countries in the world with far worse governments than the US, but they receive far less attention and criticism because their actions don't have nearly as much of an impact on the world as a whole.
    The US doesn't do any worse overall than any other country would in its position, which is not to say it does everything ok. It's just that a lot of criticism, especially from other western countries that did the same and/or worse when they were more dominant sounds hollow to US ears. (Canada, never having been a dominant power, may not fall under this).
    European criticism in particular seems suspect, not because it may or may not have some validity, but because Europe in general doesn't have a good track record. Just a few years ago Bosnian Europeans were slaughtering Muslim and Croat Europeans, while other Europeans dithered about economic sanctions and limited peacekeeping roles, which they ran from if the heat got tough.
    Granted, the US could have done more as well, but this was basically a European problem between Europeans. You can't really fault the US for not being more forceful when the governments over there weren't either.
    To the US public, this makes European governments seem ineffective. So when the US is criticized for taking action, a lot of the criticism is shrugged off as whining by those who won't take action. Some of the criticism is valid, etc, but the source is suspect.
    Canada is a bit different, not a major power and stuck with living next to the US. I live near Canada, and have been there hundreds of times. It's a great country, great people that I've met (well, some Quebecois were not so nice, but probably because I spoke English and not French). Have relatives there. Doesn't make all their criticism valid, but some is. Must be like trying to live on a porcupine sometimes.
    Nobody likes the biggest bear, who takes more than many feel is his fair share, who often does what he wants regardless of others, who makes the biggest s**tpiles, etc. But regardless of who it is, there's always a biggest bear. And all the animals make s**tpiles, take what they can get (just not as much as the bear), etc.
    Truth is a malleable commodity - Dick Cheney

  3. #48
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    let's stop arguing about economics. we know we are rich. but it is not our job to give foreigners jobs. our subsidies help americans at the expense of foreigners. big deal. that's the purpose of all subsidies. i have no idea why farm subsidies were granted, but it is not our job to consider the collective welfare of other countries. in the real world, we are brutal. a country isn't a friendly thing. the purpose of a country is to ensure the best welfare for its citizens, while keeping every other country friendly.

    please, understand the typical american view of the world. (or mine, anyway.) america is a sovereign nation. we are the most powerful on earth, but surely we don't overpower most of the other countries, do we? europe is responsibile for european citizens (and we consider the united kingdom to be part of europe.) japan is responsible for its welfare. mexico is responsible for its welfare. and so on...

    in military power, we surpass most countries by a factor so great that it mandates our being a global citizen in that area. but in economics and politics, it's every country for itself.

  4. #49
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    Originally posted by ygfperson
    let's stop arguing about economics. we know we are rich. but it is not our job to give foreigners jobs. our subsidies help americans at the expense of foreigners. big deal. that's the purpose of all subsidies. i have no idea why farm subsidies were granted, but it is not our job to consider the collective welfare of other countries. in the real world, we are brutal. a country isn't a friendly thing. the purpose of a country is to ensure the best welfare for its citizens, while keeping every other country friendly.

    please, understand the typical american view of the world. (or mine, anyway.) america is a sovereign nation. we are the most powerful on earth, but surely we don't overpower most of the other countries, do we? europe is responsibile for european citizens (and we consider the united kingdom to be part of europe.) japan is responsible for its welfare. mexico is responsible for its welfare. and so on...

    in military power, we surpass most countries by a factor so great that it mandates our being a global citizen in that area. but in economics and politics, it's every country for itself.
    preciselly why canada should stop all exports of oil & gas to the americans i would love to see the americans squirming when the price of oil doubles! it would be grand! how long do you think the americans could stand it? half a year? less? and im willing to be if canada did do this the americans would kindly invade us to get their cheap oil back...

  5. #50
    Much older and wiser Fountain's Avatar
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    i really give up! a post started as Americans are c**ts, has ended up as canadians think americans are c**ts.......maybe you two sides should work together , with us Englanders and ...well, take over the world...


    ignore the rest of the posts.....they will only wind you up!
    Such is life.

  6. #51
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    >preciselly why canada should stop all exports of oil & gas to the americans i would love to see the americans squirming when the price of oil doubles! it would be grand! how long do you think the americans could stand it? half a year? less? and im willing to be if canada did do this the americans would kindly invade us to get their cheap oil back...<

    Of course Europe and Japan would also suffer as a result of global oil prices being influenced by each other.

    AS for the USA being a crutch to the world economy the fact is if either The United States or Japan fall then the world would be in big trouble. If a single coutry in europe fell into ecomic depresion the world stands a bit better of a chance of surviving.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  7. #52
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    >>our subsidies help americans at the expense of foreigners. big deal. that's the purpose of all subsidies.

    So what you are saying is;
    If it makes Americans money and causes others to die of starvation, you donít think it is a problem.
    So you think money is more important than human life or that there is a value that can be put on a life.
    So you put profit above social responsibility. You feel it is acceptable to destroy others ability to survive / subsist so you can buy luxury goods.

    >> i have no idea why farm subsidies were granted, but it is not our job to consider the collective welfare of other countries. in the real world, we are brutal.

    You donít take the time to understand what / why your government does these things but you feel your government is right regardless.
    If your industries canít compete on a fair basis, then it is acceptable to hinder other countries industries (who are more competitive than yours) rather improve your industries viability.


    The Californians are bitterly complaining about the price of electricity, thanks to a bad gov deal.
    You HAVE to buy electricity to live. What if the power company suddenly told you that you have to pay a 100% extra that you could not afford? What if it was winter and you were going to freeze? Hey they are just selling their product, what can you do?




    But you still wonder why we donít like you! Can you see that might annoy some of us?
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
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  8. #53
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    >>our subsidies help americans at the expense of foreigners. big deal.
    >>a country isn't a friendly thing.

    OMFG. And these are the children who will one day grow up to be their nations leaders. We're all screwed.


    Didnt you people learn anything in kindergarten? Learn to share. Everybody just get along. Enough with the "If your country does this, mine'll do this" whiny bunk. Hate to break it to you (all sides) but your bratty boasts dont make a rats tit difference in what your govornment is going to do. The only thing your kiddy arguments are proving is that so many people havent grown up yet.

    Luckly for the world [some of] our leaders have grown past this petty name calling. We're every one of us human. Where's this hate coming from?
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  9. #54
    Registered User Scourfish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by lightatdawn
    Where's this hate coming from?
    It all started with a man whose net alias was Shiro: I like to call it, "the post heard 'round the world."

  10. #55
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    LightAtDawn:

    >>>
    And these are the children who will one day grow up to be their nations leaders.
    <<<

    So true, but remember when you were their age? Weren't things so much simpler then, easy fixes for everything and so on. Luckily, most nations do not have 15 year olds governing them, otherwise there would be real trouble.

    A relevent side issue, because of deaths due to fighting, and particulaly AIDS, certain countries in Africa now have an average age of 15 and dropping. I wonder how long it will be before we DO have a coutry run by kids, because that is all that is left.

    I suppose the answer from ygfperson would be, "stuff them, their not Americans" - you see, it's easy when you don't understand!!!

    "Looking for an answer - ask a kid, they know everything".
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  11. #56
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    > if the government, (any, not just the US gov/citizen), is doing things that you don't agree with, then by not acting against the government, are you not - basically agreeing?

    Not anymore than Denmark is agreeing with the US gov't by not invading us.

    Really - this whole thing makes little sense. The American gov't gets blasted for having their nose in too many things, but we also got blasted for isolationism. You blast us for doing things that help our country at the expense of other countries, but ........ and moan that America's a ........ty place to live. So, what should we do?

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    "our subsidies help americans at the expense of foreigners. big deal. that's the purpose of all subsidies. "

    right, but at the same time you punish us for allegedly subsidising our industry???

  13. #58
    It's full of stars adrianxw's Avatar
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    GovtCheez:

    >>>
    You blast us for doing things that help our country at the expense of other countries, but ........ and moan that America's a ****ty place to live.
    <<<

    Actually, I never made any comment about living conditions in the US. That is an internal affair. I don't live in the US, have no desire to live in the US, and with the new travel restrictions, (amongst others - the US not accepting Danish passports any more), I am unlikely to visit again.

    My comments concern US foreign policy. There have been numerous examples posted in this and other threads demonstrating the double standard that the US routinely seems to employ. "We", as in the rest of the world, do something to protect our business/industry/fisheries/etc./etc. the US runs to the WTO/UN/etc./etc. whingeing. The US does the same, "we", (same big we!), are the whingers.

    This month, another 1000 employees at the steelworks in Frederiksvśrk are losing their jobs, (the steelworks is the only large employer in the area). Simply put, the works cannot compete with the world prices. Same thing happens in the US, oh, can't have that, I know, tarrifs.

    Sorry Cheez, as you well know, I am not one of the anti-American hotheads we get on the board, (all the damn time), but sometimes things need to be said.
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity unto the dream.

  14. #59
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    >>So true, but remember when you were their age? Weren't things so much simpler then, easy fixes for everything and so on.

    True. Ignorance is bliss i suppose. Its easy to solve a problem when all you can see is two variables.

    >>Sorry Cheez, as you well know, I am not one of the anti-American hotheads we get on the board, (all the damn time), but sometimes things need to be said.

    Couldnt have said it better. I dont blindly bash away at everything and anything as your all well aware. Just because someone makes a negative point doesnt neccessarily mean they're out to get you. I just wish more people would remain calm and rational about it. Rational discussion leads to greater awareness and understanding. Name calling and mud slinging leads nowhere but to sullen grudges and ignorance.
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  15. #60
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    Hope congress passes the TPA soon.

    "The President needs Congress to pass Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) before he can ask his Trade Representative Bob Zoellick to begin free trade negotiations with any country."


    I am so glad that Australia is the US's best buddy, I would hate to see what happens if we fall out. (Except it may be fall out on us )

    "And our best friend will be with us at the end of this war, too, and that's really comforting to know,"
    GWB to John Howard (PM of Aust) 13 June 2002

    Take that Canada! He likes us better than you or Mexico.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

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