does any1 here play Sacrifice or TonyHawk3>?
does any1 here play Sacrifice or TonyHawk3>?
i watched the WTC thing live and in color on the TV the morning of 9/11. after it happened i turned to my wife and said "I hope the hell we dont wake up to pictures of a mushroom cloud tomorow".
my point the US involment in Pakistan is what it is. but even when given a reason we didnt scream nuke and i hope like hell India and Pakistan show at least enough F*****G brains to keep thier collective fingers off the nuke button.
>> BUT the militants who are blowing up women and children, are terrorists, and they are the primary cause of the current crisis.
How can you be so sure, that it is the militants who are doing all this? It might be that the people are willing to get liberation and the indian forces are killing them and blowing up and all that stuff.
The militants are fighting against only the indian troops. There are more that 7 lac (0.7 million) soldiers in KASHMIR, and they cannot destroy a handful of "terrorists" (so you'd say). It is just b/c the militants are also supported by the people of kashmir.
Their fight has kept this issue alive, or India would've just took away with KASHMIR, which is not right (remember, no referendum). Now, the whole world knows that KASHMIR is a disputed territory. Could this've been possible without the efforts of the so called militants.
Did the americans not fight the british to get independence? The British must've called the Americans terrorists at that time...
Well how can you say the Indians are killing the people... I live here.. And i know the situation.. Pakistan cannot live without the issue of Kashmir. THis is what keeping pakistan leadership the country united..... And if you say if there are so many soldiers and how can militants com in..
What happened in Vietnam.. There were many soldiers but gurila war fare took place where the militants strike in small numbers...
Kashmire is not a small city as you think.. it has got 100's of mountians where the militantss can hide.. And dont you dare to call Indian soldiers did it.. Last month the childrens and wifes of these soldiers along with civilian were killed in the attack... Will you kill your own WIFE and CHILDRENS.....
As one India Soldier comented.." Before they used to attack us directly.. but now they attack our childrens and wifes when we are at the border".... We know how much we are bleeding due to militants... You guys dont learn even after pearls killing.. Can i say that Americans killed him to get more support from country's to support their fight in Afganistan...... BE LOGICAL.....
IF YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE WHAT REAL PAKISTANIS TALK VISIT
IT IS A PAKISTANI FORUM.. HERE YOU SEE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT KILLING ALL HINDUS..
Here they even talk about how pakistan was brave enough to drive away all Hindus during the partition.. They even say that Indian MUSLIMS are f******.. Since thay support India.. And they agree that faith allows them to kill people.. JUST VISIT THIS AND YOU WILL KNOW THE REALITY...
Well i don't see too much LOGIC in your reasoning either. India just wants to crush Pakistan, and be the supreme power specially in this part of the world, and still be noble in the eyes of the world. She sees some potential in Pakistan, which, by the way is also a nuclear state, not to obey it. The killings of the families of the soldiers could've been a work of your Intelligence agencies (RAW), or maybe some other party, just to justify an attack on Pakistan.
Pakistan knows that she cannot win against India, specially in a conventional battle. Doing all, what you believe she has done, would certainly lead to her own doom, and she knows that. The leadership is not a group of idiots. They have minds too. Specially performing such an action at a time like this, when the two countries are ALMOST in a state of war, can lead to a full-fledged war (maybe even a nuclear war) any time. Then, what's the LOGIC in doing such a deed at such a time. What did Pakistan gain from these incidents. On the other hand, India has acquired an excuse to put pressure on Pakistan, to attack it, or to pressurize it so much that it agrees to leave its demand for kashmir.
As far as the website is concerned, the words of a group of teenagers cannot be understood to be the thinking of a whole nation. I'm sure, i'd be able to find some such indian websites too, in which the same bent of mind is reflected for the pakistanis. How would you explain the mass riots and killing of thousands of muslims by the hands of Hindus in Gujrat, India?
Sometimes these militants (or freedom-fighters, as i'd prefer to call them) may have to do something wrong for their cause (like killing of civilians), but such incidents are bound to happen in any freedom fight. Even, when the people of the Indian Sub-continent were struggling for independence against the british, such incidents did happen. Gandhiji started the mass non-cooperation movement against the English government, which lead to mass-riots and devastation. It had to be done. He, a preacher of "AHINSA - respect to all life-forms", knew that it would lead to mass destruction; destruction of life and money. But he also knew that if he didn't commence such movements, the british would never leave, and the people would have to suffer even more.
yea right it was the work of RAW?? who ever gave you that idea...
Pakistan does not gain anything.. But the terrorists have their camp there... And we want them removed.. Well then if it is freedom fighting I SHOULD SAY THAT THE 9/11 INCIDENT WAS ALSO FREEDOM FIGHTING.. AND KILLING OF PERL.. AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST IS ALSO FREEDOM FIGHTING... IF YOU PUT IT THAT WAY.. LONG LIVE FREEDOM FIGHTERS.. HIJACK MORE PLANES........
i am surprised that you folks can speak of killing civilians, women and children like it is a just cause. look at the events that occured on 9/11 and the resulting attack on Afganistan thousands and thousands of people were killed as a result of the actions of a few radicals and now you speak of nuclear war. take a look at the pictures from Japan then look out you window and ask yourself, will this look the same after "We make our point" i must confess the Indians and the Pakistanis are demonstrating even less regard for intelect than the Americans and Osoma's followers.
I just can't figure out why they don't just hold a referendum, problem solved.
>I just can't figure out why they don't just hold a referendum, problem solved.
Because the only way the problem will ever be solved is either a change in attitude or complete annihilation of one side. I don't think extremists care much for democracy.
>> I SHOULD SAY THAT THE 9/11 INCIDENT WAS ALSO FREEDOM FIGHTING.. AND KILLING OF PERL.. AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST IS ALSO FREEDOM FIGHTING... IF YOU PUT IT THAT WAY.. LONG LIVE FREEDOM FIGHTERS.. HIJACK MORE PLANES........
You are intentionally mixing up a terrorist act with a genuine freedom fighting movement... The doers 0f 9/11 incident didn't do it as a freedom fight act, nor did they claim it as such.
I can in a similar way say that Gandhiji was a terrorist to start his non-cooperation movement and other liberation movements (which involved quite some violence, for which these leader were even imprisoned many times) against the British, after all they were the current rulers. Some sacrifices have to be given in the way of justice.
>> Pakistan does not gain anything.. But the terrorists have their camp there... And we want them removed..
"Pakistan does not gain anything"?, actually "Pakistan does not gain anything, instead it suffers by India's propaganda" is more likely. If Pakistan is not gaining anything, why would it do such acts? Instead, India is gaining quite some points, e.g. (1)it is putting more and more pressure on Pakistan into handing over all the Kashmir to India, and giveup this GENUINE cause. (2) it is acquiring an excuse for accumulating more and more military strength and artilary. (3) it is making itself look innocent in the eyes of the world and gathering their sympathy. (4)It is turning the just freedom-fight into a terrorist-movement, controlled and funded by Pakistan....
>You are intentionally mixing up a terrorist act with a genuine freedom fighting movement...
Of course, Osama sees himself as an evil son of a *****.
Every terrorist sees themselves as freedom fighters (I believe Osama is fighting for the feedom of Palastine).
>> Every terrorist sees themselves as freedom fighters
Does this mean there is no such thing as FREEDOM FIGHT ? Does this mean that the americans who fought against the british were terrorists ? Does this mean that the inhabitants of the indian-subcontinent were terrorists? Does this mean that the people of indonesia, malaysia, singapore, new zealand who fought against the british were terrorists? (...why does every historical freedom fight ultimately lead to BRITAIN ? :D )
Does this mean that if India invades your country and you fight against India you'll be performing a terrorist act ?
>> I believe Osama is fighting for the feedom of Palastine
O No he isn't... He never took the name of Palestine until only the recent incidents when he himself got in trouble. He wanted to rouse the feelings of the muslims around the world against the western world by calling the name of Palestine... But, fortunately most people had intellect. They didn't listen to him. He just used the name of a genuine cause to save his own ***.
>Does this mean there is no such thing as FREEDOM FIGHT ?
No, it just means calling it a FREEDOM FIGHT doesn't necessarily imply it's for the freedom of all of those involved or that they deserve it (ie the freedom for one religious denomination/nationality to ........ over another).
>He just used the name of a genuine cause to save his own ***.
This may be true, but do his FREEDOM FIGHTING supporters see it this way. Do you think the US was attacked because it exports McDonalds round the world or because it's percieved to be supporting Isreal. Btw, whoever said anything about a genuine cause.
oh, this British occupying army ???Quote:
Originally posted by salvelinus
Well I would if the army would get out.
when are you going to understand, 2/3 of N I population WANT the army there !! to protect them against terrorism. thats the difficulty of the situation.
do we ignore them and abandon them ?? stay and have IRA terrorists murder and bomb innocent civilians in London and elsewhere?? or find some middle ground ?? we are trying to do the latter.
""get your troops out of Hawii !!"" is about as ridiculous a statement as you've just made.