the us constitution

This is a discussion on the us constitution within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; "i stand by that statement. in losing 5000 citizens we have made the lives of all afghani people better. fewer ...

  1. #76
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    "i stand by that statement. in losing 5000 citizens we have made the lives of all afghani people better. fewer die. "

    Then i stand by my statement that you are a fool. If you don't care that 5000 innocent people were killed you are saying that it DOESN'T MATTER, who cares if 5,000 innocent people died, who cares if 10,000 died, 20,000, who gives a damn right?

    You ****ing should care, do you think you would care if it was your family that was killed?

    Is it OK for me to say that I don't care that 3,000 innocent people died in the towers? Of course it's not, i'd have to be an immoral subhuman to claim so, every person matters, every civilian casuality matters.

    And people wonder why there is anti American feeling, christ.

    Oh and don't even try to pretend that helping the Afghani people had anything to do with the military operation to get AlQueida. It didn't, if the Afghans benfit i'm sure that the USA will take the credit, if it ****s up and they're lives are wrecked again then no doubt the USA will wash their whole hands of it, just like they did when THEY PUT THE TALIBAN IN POWER, and say its none of their concern.

    For the record I fully support the actions taken against the Taliban and AlQuedia, but idiots who claim that "don't care" that innocent people die, when sitting in their nice air conditioned houses, ........ me off.

  2. #77
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    Originally posted by itld
    howdy,

    i must agree and i wonder who we are arming today that we will be fighting tommorow - Isreal, Saudi Arabia, Columbia??

    M.R.
    Well US once trained and armed Al quiada. US now arm and train tha Afgan liberation army..I am willing to bet that that will turn against US.

  3. #78
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    "i stand by that statement. in losing 5000 citizens we have made the lives of all afghani people better. fewer die. "

    Then i stand by my statement that you are a fool. If you don't care that 5000 innocent people were killed you are saying that it DOESN'T MATTER, who cares if 5,000 innocent people died, who cares if 10,000 died, 20,000, who gives a damn right?

    You ****ing should care, do you think you would care if it was your family that was killed?
    we cannot measure pain in the number of human lives. i would feel much more grief if my family all died than i do for the many more who die overseas. it's human nature. would the parade of people over the queen mother's death have happened if the person who had died was just another ~100 year old english woman? am i supposed to feel empathy for every living human being on the planet? some people die. period.
    Is it OK for me to say that I don't care that 3,000 innocent people died in the towers? Of course it's not, i'd have to be an immoral subhuman to claim so, every person matters, every civilian casuality matters.
    what about the military? shall we care for their deaths, too? on memorial day we don't grieve for their loss, we celebrate their sacrifice. their deaths don't matter, it's their accomplishments. their souls rest in what they have accomplished.
    And people wonder why there is anti American feeling, christ.

    Oh and don't even try to pretend that helping the Afghani people had anything to do with the military operation to get AlQueida. It didn't, if the Afghans benfit i'm sure that the USA will take the credit, if it ****s up and they're lives are wrecked again then no doubt the USA will wash their whole hands of it, just like they did when THEY PUT THE TALIBAN IN POWER, and say its none of their concern.

    For the record I fully support the actions taken against the Taliban and AlQuedia, but idiots who claim that "don't care" that innocent people die, when sitting in their nice air conditioned houses, ........ me off.
    you have to look at the whole picture. 5000 is nothing. 3000 is nothing. look at how many people die daily from simple things such as heat exhaustion.

    Actually it is GWB, even M Albright can't understand GWB's foreign policy! (you do know what office she holds don't you)
    she was clinton's secretary of state. and she held office. why do you even ask such questions? let's not show off with facts we think the other doesn't know.
    So why should we overseas care about Americans?
    good question. since we have throughly insulted your countries with our refusals to help and our actions which may hurt others, why does your country still side with us?
    Lets rip them off at every opportunity. Make the world such a dangerous and rude place that they never leave the US. Ensure they all know they are not welcome in our countries, because here they will be treated here as your congress treats our countries.
    oh, the horrors of being rude! your country doesn't exist to spread civilization. your government exists to further the interests of your own people. congress does just that. we as a people don't hate other countries, with exception to those that attack us. honestly, we don't care if you hate us. your opinion doesn't matter to us. you may say whatever you wish inside our country, including burning the american flag. we (as people) might watch, and we might agree. then we get back to work and forget about you.
    If you act like the spoilt selfish child then you should be treated like one.
    Is that the world you want? It is not one I want to live in but we must all consider the effects of our actions on others.
    i agree. it is a good idea to be diplomatic. but we aren't.
    And by the way, your military consists of 5% foreigners. After their term of service you do not even guarantee them citizenship! (they can apply but must pay their own way!) If you don't believe, this look it up, prove me wrong.
    i have no reason to doubt you. just remember that all members of our military joined of their own free will.
    >>they like Novican would have taken our money and shown no respect for us as acountry or as individuals.
    You have to earn respect
    I make one comment that I _can_ take advantage of Americans to give you a mirror to your actions, NOT THAT I DO.
    take advantage? how?
    And what I am saying is if you had spent US$64bill on Afghanistan after the USSR / US conflict, there would have been no Taliban or Al Queda. But you refused to help after the CIA had trained and armed the clans.
    we made a mistake. we ducked out too early, and left a broken nation. hindsight is 20:20.

    in short: americans don't value kindness. we value freedom.

  4. #79
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    "am i supposed to feel empathy for every living human being on the planet? some people die. period."

    Excellent, so if you don't know them personally who cares? Who cares if 5000 innocent Afghani's die. Congratulations you are a thoroughly decent human being.

    "what about the military? shall we care for their deaths, too?"

    I'm not asking you to personally grieve each and every civilian loss, or any other loss, but saying that you don't care is utterly reprehensible.

    "you have to look at the whole picture. 5000 is nothing. 3000 is nothing. look at how many people die daily from simple things such as heat exhaustion. "

    Another example of sheer idiocy, 5000 people are nothing? Well i guess then one person is nothing too, so why bother locking murderers up eh? In-fact if 5000 people are "nothing" then 3000 people must certainly also be "nothing" so why the hell invade Afganistan?

    You fool, each one of those 5000 people was a real life flesh and blood person, with dreams, aspirations, loves. Whether or not it represents a statistically significant portion of a given population is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. 6 Million people are "nothing" on a global scale guess you "don't care" about the people that died in the concentration camps.

    Every person counts, every single one.

  5. #80
    In The Light
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    howdy,
    WOW even tlking like that makes me nervous, 8,000people dead is a terible thing, regardless if they were civilians or military. take the total effect of the survivors and the numbers get huge.
    I for one American citizen and veteran give a s**t about each of the casualties.
    so the question is this if an all out atack on the agressers is not the answer what is?
    or in other words would YOUR country have send a diplomatic team to Afganistan to beg for forgiveness, or a military force to demand justice?

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  6. #81
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    Excellent, so if you don't know them personally who cares?
    that's sort of my point. people die in war. this isn't news.
    Who cares if 5000 innocent Afghani's die. Congratulations you are a thoroughly decent human being.
    thank you.
    Another example of sheer idiocy, 5000 people are nothing?
    it gets complicated. any average of 5000 deaths means nothing. but when a bunch of people die together there was a common cause. the 5000 in afghanistan died because our weapons aren't perfect, and they killed innocent people. the 3000 in new york died because a terrorist decided to crash planes into the world trade center. big difference.
    Well i guess then one person is nothing too, so why bother locking murderers up eh?
    it deters more murder. a murderer murders because of hate. the cause of murder wasn't a mere mistake. s/he might kill again, and s/he needs to be locked up to prevent it. if a person dies of a stroke, the cause was a medical problem. there's a difference in causes, and therefore a difference in reactions. why do you think first degree murder has a higher punishment than 2nd degree murder, or manslaughter?
    In-fact if 5000 people are "nothing" then 3000 people must certainly also be "nothing" so why the hell invade Afganistan?
    invading afghanistan was a deterrent against more terror. terrorism not just kills people, it tortures their minds, and inflicts fear into their hearts. deaths are just deaths. the dead will remain dead forever. it's the living who should be protected.
    You fool, each one of those 5000 people was a real life flesh and blood person, with dreams, aspirations, loves. Whether or not it represents a statistically significant portion of a given population is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.
    i agree.
    6 Million people are "nothing" on a global scale guess you "don't care" about the people that died in the concentration camps.

    Every person counts, every single one.
    the people who died in concentration camps died because the nazi's committed genocide against the jewish race. (and then some.) i care not about the people who died, but about the very idea of killing off a race. it is pure hate. pure hate != collateral damage.

    i care about the living, not the dead. we can't bring back the 5000 afghani citizens, or the 3000 in the world trade center attack. the cause of death matters because it can help prevent more death. accidents are largely unpreventable beyond a point. war isn't accurate. but terrorism is preventable. by attacking afghanistan we lowered the chances greatly of another attack.

  7. #82
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    >>i must agree and i wonder who we are arming today that we will be fighting tommorow - Isreal, Saudi Arabia, Columbia??

    CIA is currently 'advising' (training & arming) the Phillipines military. Who have already been accused of crimes against Muslim civillians.

    Indonesia will be next. Which is why I am concerned. I could care less for the problems the US creates for itself, until you bring them to my neighbourhood.

    >>or in other words would YOUR country have send a diplomatic team to Afganistan to beg for forgiveness, or a military force to demand justice?
    My country would not have armed and trained them in the first place. My country would not have ruined their economy with tariffs and subsidies. Try stopping that.

    You are treating the symptoms with bombs. It will not cure the problem of terrorism, just drive it further underground, make it more determined and increase its numbers. There will be more attacks on the US. They will target civillians. (look at the current increase in suicide bombers in Israel)

    I hope that you wake-up and start to realise that you can not sell arms and supply advanced military training to anyone you think will serve your cause of the moment. (eg Northern Alliance) This tactic is well known, look at what happened to the leader of the NA a few days before S11, he was well known media hog.

    If you had supplied Afghanistan with US$64bill in food, farm machinery and medical technology, then you would be treating the problem. Creating 'good will' not the hate / anti US feelings you currently are increasing.
    Last edited by novacain; 05-23-2002 at 09:21 PM.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  8. #83
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    Answer this question, novican.

    Should the allies not have done anything against hittler in world war II becasue civilations were killed?
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  9. #84
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    The allies did not arm and train Hitler and the German army. Then complain he was not doing what they wanted / expected.

    The allies did not try to assasinate Hitler before 1939.

    And again, casualties happen in war,I agree. If you actually read my posts, they clearly state, twice, that I am comparing the MEDIA coverage.

    How do you know the number of casualties in Afghanistan? Find a more accurate number on a US news service.
    Then find the number of WTC casualties. Which is easier?

    That is my point.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  10. #85
    Christian
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    >The allies did not arm and train Hitler and the German army. Then complain he was not doing what they wanted / expected.<

    Germany was not atacked, it atacked first. You are looking at Iran's Iraq's and the Taliban's actions in hindsight. Are actions in the middle east are no diffent then actions taking in previous times, and by previous contries.

    Look at the timeline


    Iran atacked Iraq and we helped Iraq fight them.

    Sadam instead of doing what most other world leaders do and do nothing, he decides to atack kuwait.

    The UN tells him to back off and he just presses further into Kuwait. We atack Iraq and force him out of Kuwait.


    At exectly what time would we have no the actions that were going to take place? Never.

    Ok now on to afgianistan

    The soviets atacked afgainistan and the those in Afgainistan fight back. In are policy to prevent soviet expensiton we help them, and they win.

    Back to Desert Storm

    Troops are set in Sadia Araiba were they remain today

    This ........es of Bin Laden who atacks the US. and is cast out of Sadia Arabia, and evenlty goes to Afgianistan.

    Back to Afgianistan
    The US stupidly left afginistan, and the Taliban promising peace and an end to the civil wars take over, as Time passes they are more and more evil and curl toward there own people.

    Bin Laden lives wonderfully in Afgainitan and keeps pushing the US to atack him and his terriost network.

    September 11 he pushes to far. We ask the Taliban to hand him over and they refuse. We atack, destroying the Taliban and disrupting Bin Laden's campain.


    >The allies did not try to assasinate Hitler before 1939.
    We did what he wanted (the only other choice besides war) before he atacked poland.

    >And again, casualties happen in war,I agree. If you actually read my posts, they clearly state, twice, that I am comparing the MEDIA coverage.

    How do you know the number of casualties in Afghanistan? Find a more accurate number on a US news service.
    Then find the number of WTC casualties. Which is easier? <

    In war People die, simmple as that. If you concintrate on civilions that are killed accidently by your own forces people are going to want to stop fighting, and if you don't fight you loose.

    >That is my point.
    That is your myth.
    Last edited by Sentaku senshi; 05-23-2002 at 10:59 PM.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  11. #86
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    howdy,
    throwing money to a people that vows to kill us all, that teaches generation after generation that we (Americans) are the devil and back it up with religious dogma seems a bit far fetched to me.
    i seriously doubt that any act of good will on our part could sway the radical Muslims from hating everything the Americans stand for nor would it change thier religious beliefs about what they see as thier enemies.

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  12. #87
    Christian
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    Case in point:
    Iran we helped it devlop into more western nation and as a resut religous fundamentalist over through the Shaw and replaced him with Ayattollah Rouhollah Khomeini.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  13. #88
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    >>i seriously doubt that any act of good will on our part could sway the radical Muslims

    not the radicals, No. But the rest I think would.

    If they had good schools, food ect I think the radicals would have a harder time convincing them to commit suicide for the cause. Or kill those kindly Americans. And so there would be less radicals. Its like racism, it can only be cured through children's attitudes. (as they are the next wave of suicide bombers)

    Sentaku senshi (note: I take the time to spell your name correctly)

    You have a limited take on the conversation because I doubt you have read the posts fully.

    You have missed the point over civillian casualties again. From your statements it seems that you are American but from you typing it seems English is not your first language.

    So I will try again. Please read carefully as I grow tired of explaining for the FOURTH time.

    >NV And again, casualties happen in war, I agree. If you actually read my posts, they clearly state, twice, that I am comparing the MEDIA coverage.

    How do you know the number of casualties in Afghanistan? Find a more accurate number on a US news service.
    Then find the number of WTC casualties. Which is easier? <


    And Sentaku
    If you don't have war there is peace. If you don't sell everybody guns there COULD be peace. Stop interferring in the middle east as you are yet to get it right. I would think that you could learn from you mistakes in Iran, Iraq and Somalia.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  14. #89
    Christian
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    >not the radicals, No. But the rest I think would.

    If they had good schools, food ect I think the radicals would have a harder time convincing them to commit suicide for the cause. Or kill those kindly Americans. And so there would be less radicals. Its like racism, it can only be cured through children's attitudes. (as they are the next wave of suicide bombers)<

    There is one slight problem with that. This contries are led by the radicals that prevent food, supplies, schooling from happening and blame the US for it.

    >Sentaku senshi (note: I take the time to spell your name correctly)
    novacain, novacain novacain novacain, I am tired it's late.

    >You have a limited take on the conversation because I doubt you have read the posts fully. <

    I read all post fully.

    >You have missed the point over civillian casualties again. From your statements it seems that you are American but from you typing it seems English is not your first language.<
    See above for spelling. Your missing my point.

    >So I will try again. Please read carefully as I grow tired of explaining for the FOURTH time.

    >NV And again, casualties happen in war, I agree. If you actually read my posts, they clearly state, twice, that I am comparing the MEDIA coverage.

    How do you know the number of casualties in Afghanistan? Find a more accurate number on a US news service.
    Then find the number of WTC casualties. Which is easier? <<
    The media does not concintrate on causulties because people are soft and will want to stop. The terriorst win.

    >And Sentaku
    If you don't have war there is peace. If you don't sell everybody guns there COULD be peace. Stop interferring in the middle east as you are yet to get it right. I would think that you could learn from you mistakes in Iran, Iraq and Somalia.<

    So sudam should have been allowed to keep kuwait? Communism rule Iran?
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

  15. #90
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    Sadam would not have taken Kuwait if the US had not given him the military might to do so.

    The US had stayed the out of Iran there would not have been a problem with Iraq.

    The problem is the US thinks it knows best. It keeps making the same mistakes, never seeming to learn. Prevention is better than cure.

    Look up Iran Contra and see what extrodinary lengths Regan was prepared to go to to free the hostages. Did he care where/who the guns were going to?


    >>The media does not concintrate on causulties because people are soft and will want to stop.

    So if the people knew the WHOLE TRUTH they would want to stop the war?
    What does that say about the validity of the war?
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

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