the us constitution

This is a discussion on the us constitution within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by Clyde "the right to free speech is absolute" Actually, i have a feeling it's not. If people ...

  1. #16
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    Originally posted by Clyde
    "the right to free speech is absolute"

    Actually, i have a feeling it's not.

    If people want to burn any nations flag, let em, its just a freaking flag, a piece of cloth.
    Yeah, we have limits on every freedom.
    Show me a man who cannot bother to do little things, and I'll show you a man who cannot be trusted to do big things.

    -Bill Cosby

  2. #17
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    rights are not assigned to people by this country based on their beliefs. rights are not assigned, period. it is whether a country punishes for an action or speech that defines a citizen's freedom in this country.

    flag burning is offensive to many. it is also an unmistakable symbol. either the flag burner wants america to die (or something equal) or the flag burner thinks america is dying. it's either hatred or critism. it's generally agreed that people should be allowed to critisize this country. should they be allowed to hate it, and show their hate?

  3. #18
    In The Light
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    howdy,
    should they be allowed to hate it,
    diversity of ideas is what makes this country great.

    and show their hate?
    attacks of this nature (flag burning) are more than a demonstration of hate.

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  4. #19
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    attacks of this nature (flag burning) are more than a demonstration of hate.
    how?

  5. #20
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    How do feel about people who proudly uphold the confedrete (sp?) flag. (As I understand now a symbol of racism to many)

    How do you feel about spending $170bill on paying farmers to grow crops no one wants?
    Then dumping them on the market to artificially reduce prices?
    How will you feel about it in a few years when it is $1.7trillion?
    Your rice is now so heavily subsidiesed it is sold for less than it costs to grow.
    How do you feel about setting quotas on the amounts that can be imported into the US? You may have to pay more for an inferior product but it will be US made.
    How can the developing nations compeat? Just as well you throw them a few crumbs in aid.



    How do you in Europe and Japan feel about the US blaming it solely on you?
    (as they did to our govt, then told us off for trying to keep out diseases and pests)


    "The cost of free speech is listening to some things you do not agree with."
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  6. #21
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    itld, if you look to the left of my posts, just under my name you will see what I do. So please do not get preachy about America underappreciating veterans, because that is not what flag burning is about. Flag burning is excersizing ones right to free speech afforded to them by the constitution. Now, although myself, will never burn a flag in protest if other people do and suffer no consequences from the government it means that the people before me and I have done our jobs in preserving our most loved country. The constitution is just a piece of paper, it is not the constitution but the ideas that they represent that is our country. Do you mean to tell me that if the constitution were burned tomorrow that our country would cease to exist? Come on now, lets grow up a little. It is those who have served our country, those who have protested to make our country better(remember apartheid?) and those who simply work everyday who perpetuate America, and it is these people who are America. That is why are country is so great, that is why it is worth fighting, and even dying for.

    Edit: By the way, do you remember how we retire a flag?
    Last edited by Traveller; 05-12-2002 at 11:52 PM.

  7. #22
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    howdy,
    By the way, do you remember how we retire a flag?
    not the same as standing in the streets of Lebanon.....
    what we are talking about here is not a piece of cloth or a piece of paper or burninging a rag. we are speaking of the symbology of each the flag is the synbol of our nation, the constitution is the blue print of our freedom burning a flag is the symbol of anti Amercan's
    i am not trying to take away anyones RIGHT to free speech i am talking about placing constraints on the symbology of attacks on American.
    i very much doubt that if you asked Bob Crawford or any of the other men that lived through the D Day assault if they were there to protect your right to smear Americs that the answer would by in your favor.

    BTW
    So please do not get preachy about America
    i love to get into conversations about patriotism and so far you folks have been reasonably inteligent adversaries.

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  8. #23
    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    i am not trying to take away anyones RIGHT to free speech i am talking about placing constraints on the symbology of attacks on American.
    flag burning is free speech. it's a form of political expression. as i said before it can stand for a person's opinion of america's future. that's reason enough to protect the right to burn our flag.

    but on a purely pragmatic level, what difference would it make? flag burners already have that right. america is not any worse because of it.

  9. #24
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    howdy,
    flag burners already have that right. america is not any worse because of it.
    i would have to disagree, America is not made better by the exercise of this right.
    Freedom of expresion is good, we can all agree on that. i am however afraid we will have to disagree on what lengths these freedos are allowed to reach.

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  10. #25
    i dont know Vicious's Avatar
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    Im not the wisest person(teenager if you will).
    But burning the flag out of pure hatred is digracefull and ignorant.
    If someone wants to be that awful I say let them. They are not harming anyone. I do not agree with such hatred but it is their right.

    And burning a faded flag, aka Retiring (i cant spell so.. SHHH)
    is an act of appreciation and understandin of the true meaning of the flag. Yes it is a piece of cloth, but even more it is a symbol of our heritage and our freedom to be who we are.


    [Sniff]
    Wow
    [/sniff]
    What is C++?

  11. #26
    Just one more wrong move. -KEN-'s Avatar
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    >>How can the developing nations compeat? Just as well you throw them a few crumbs in aid.

    A few crumbs??! We've spent trillions in foreign aid. I'd like to hear your respective country say that.

    All I have to say is that a flag is a symbol of the ideals and greatness of a country. The confederate flag is one too, technically, but it's a symbol of bad things. You basically have a right to be angered about symbols of nasty things like the confederacy, and all of the racism and biggotry that it stands for today.

    If they decide that they hate the US and they want to burn a flag, then they can kiss off and leave the country. Go to cuba for all I care, I hear castro's softening up. Sure, if there was something fundamentally wrong with the country and they could provide enough valid points to backup their cause, then I think they could try to reforem the place differenly.

  12. #27
    The Earth is not flat. Clyde's Avatar
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    "Sure, if there was something fundamentally wrong with the country and they could provide enough valid points to backup their cause, then I think they could try to reforem the place differenly"

    There are people around who hate the US, and i mean truly HATE the US, and have good reason for it. There are of course also plenty of people who have been misinformed, and indocrinated into hating the US, and there are people who are just envious.

  13. #28
    Registered User Aran's Avatar
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    [quote] freeloading[/qote]

    goddamn Krusty.

  14. #29
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    howdy,
    not to worry AE, as far as i'm concerned just being involved in a thread like this would indicate that you are at least thinking about patriotism thus taking part in it

    M.R.
    I don't like you very much. Please post a lot less.
    Cheez
    *and then*
    No, I know you were joking. My point still stands.

  15. #30
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    >>A few crumbs??! We've spent trillions in foreign aid. I'd like to hear your respective country say that.
    Nice trolling _KEN_ but try some facts next time.

    Actually _KEN_ its under US$20bill a year. Which puts the US LAST on percentage of GDP.

    from OneWorld news
    "The total U.S. foreign aid bill for 1997 came to about 13.6 billion dollars, the lowest amount in real terms since the onset of the Cold War in the late 1940s and less than half of US aid levels just 15 years ago. America ranks last among all developed western nations in the amount of aid it provides foreign nations expressed as a percentage of its gross domestic product (GDP) about 0.08 percent, according to a recent report by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). "

    Nearly half (49%) of this aid is military.

    Over quater of that in military aid to Egypt and Israel. In Israel, the 19th richest country in the world you give every man, woman and child US$5 in arms/security assistance. Why?

    So you spend over 3 times as much on bombing Afghanistan, over 8.5 times as much on subsidising your farmers.



    Australia still lags behind the recomended 0.40% of GDP with 0.27%. But we do not give much military aid.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

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