Attack on democracy

This is a discussion on Attack on democracy within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Today I finished work quite early. While driving home, the radio program was suddenly interupted by the sad message that ...

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    Attack on democracy

    Today I finished work quite early. While driving home, the radio program was suddenly interupted by the sad message that politician Pim Fortuyn had been shot after he left the building of a radio station where he had given an interview.

    Tonight I've been watching the TV for some hours, Fortuyn died because of his woundings and is now officially declared dead.

    Some say he was killed because of his political opinion and ideas. If this was the reason to kill him, the attack on Fortuyn was not only an attack on a political leader, but also on the Dutch democracy. In the open democracy we have here in the Netherlands, everyone is allowed to tell his/her opinion.

    In a democracy you can have very different opinions, but the debate should be the instrument to win.

    If I could I would write some more. But I can't find the right words at this moment. In Dutch yes, but not in English.

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    This is one of the hardest thing with living in a democracy. To allow opinions and free speach even if you think they are dangerous. Where do you want to draw the line for free speach? It is hard. No matter what murder is murder.

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    Registered User C_Coder's Avatar
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    Democracy is a joke

    We live in the so called free west. Where you are continually told what you can and cant do, or say.
    It seems to me that the free west is more restrictive than many eastern countries.
    I dont know who Pim Fortuyn is/was and it is a shame he was killed, but he shouldn't have been trying to tell others what they can and cant do.
    All spelling mistakes, syntatical errors and stupid comments are intentional.

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    He is a europeen extrem rightwing politician

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    Registered User C_Coder's Avatar
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    He is a europeen extrem rightwing politician
    That proves the point even further. Because he holds views extreme to "normal" people, these so called "normal" people think its ok to kill him.
    All spelling mistakes, syntatical errors and stupid comments are intentional.

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    Just because ygfperson's Avatar
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    i can't remember the last time an american congressman was shot and/or killed. reagan comes closest.

    i agree. the best way to counter speech is with more speech. the assassinator just made him a martyr. (although in the netherlands chances of a strong movement aren't big.)

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    Registered User C_Coder's Avatar
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    Your missing the point, democracy is a flawed concept.
    how can a country be democratic when such a small percentage of the people of that country have all the power, money etc?
    All spelling mistakes, syntatical errors and stupid comments are intentional.

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    I agree that democracy is flawed but it is the best we have yet. I do not think it is ok to kill someone, ever. No matter what they do say or think.

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    >He is a europeen extrem rightwing politician

    He was a Dutch rightwing politician, but not extreme.

    >We live in the so called free west. Where you are continually
    >told what you can and cant do, or say.

    Perhaps in your country.

    >I dont know who Pim Fortuyn is/was

    If you knew, then you would know about the Dutch open democracy.

    >and it is a shame he was killed, but he shouldn't have been
    >trying to tell others what they can and cant do.

    He didn't. He wasn't in the government.

    >how can a country be democratic when such a small percentage
    >of the people of that country have all the power, money etc?

    That's the point of democracy. Everybody can vote and has the same influence. Ofcourse not every aspect of the country is democratic (think of companies), but at least politics is democracy. It is the whole nation who decides who will be in the government, if they vote

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    Because the people with the power represent those with out. There job is to do what is right for them, not just your self.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

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    >Because the people with the power represent those with out.

    In the Netherlands normal people like you and me can come into the government. Become a member of a political party, show that you understand the ideals of that party, show that you're able to tell the ideals to the nation and you can get higher positions within the party. When elections come, the nation can choose you and your party to become part of the government.

    >There job is to do what is right for them, not just your self.

    What do you mean here?

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    >> >We live in the so called free west. Where you are continually
    >told what you can and cant do, or say.

    Perhaps in your country.

    Reallly, so you can say and do what you like huh?

    >> and it is a shame he was killed, but he shouldn't have been
    trying to tell others what they can and cant do.

    He didn't. He wasn't in the government.

    No but I'm sure he was campaigning and trying to bring people around to his way of thinking?

    >> That's the point of democracy. Everybody can vote and has the same influence. Ofcourse not every aspect of the country is democratic (think of companies), but at least politics is democracy. It is the whole nation who decides who will be in the government, if they vote

    Therein lies the point, of course not everybody will vote. Why should they when they disagree with every choice?
    Take the last American election, what percentage of people eligable to vote actually voted for bush? I'd bet it was considerably less than 50%
    All spelling mistakes, syntatical errors and stupid comments are intentional.

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    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >these so called "normal" people think its ok to kill him.

    I think I'm quite normal. I don't think it's ok to kill anybody, especially over political views. I'm not sure what kind of politician he was, because I don't follow dutch politics, but I know that it was a crime targeting democracy as a whole. Killing a political leader no matter what group he belonged to is a terrorist/criminal act. There are a ton of strange, useless politicians here. I don't vote for them, I don't like them, but I do like their right to voice their oppinion and get elected if enough people vote for them.
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

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    >Reallly, so you can say and do what you like huh?

    I can say what I want, why not. Ofcourse I cannot always do what I want. Laws are required to regulate a community else it would have been chaos.

    >No but I'm sure he was campaigning and trying to bring people
    >around to his way of thinking?

    Almost. When politicians are on campaign, they tell their opinion and the opinion of the party. The reason for this: people can choose which opinion they like most and will vote for those party. There are a lot of debates on TV and radio where many political leaders debate about topics. In this way you can see/listen what the position of a party or leader is on some topic.

    >Therein lies the point, of course not everybody will vote. Why
    >should they when they disagree with every choice?
    >Take the last American election, what percentage of people
    >eligable to vote actually voted for bush? I'd bet it was
    >considerably less than 50%

    You can't compare the American election with the Dutch election system. We don't vote for a president. And don't forget we have a lot of political parties we can choose from.

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    Registered User C_Coder's Avatar
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    The point I was trying to make is that in every democratic country, the eventual winner of an election has less than 50% support of the country.
    Not sayin I disagree with any political system, was just raising the point.
    All spelling mistakes, syntatical errors and stupid comments are intentional.

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