.NET; What is your opinion?

This is a discussion on .NET; What is your opinion? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; > That's not what he was saying....he was saying that C++ allowed good OOP principals, but does not preclude you ...

  1. #16
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    That's not what he was saying....he was saying that C++ allowed good OOP principals, but does not preclude you from writting procedural code
    <

    Fordy is exactly right.

    this is not evrything in life. you may be right but i don't believe in this. i use C++ for its flexibility i program for the most part procedurally but sometimes i just cant do without OOP,
    so the mix is so absolutly perfect for my needs. eliminating procedural programming is really not neccessary, and i fail to see the reasoning behind it!

    >
    I understand that, but why focus on procedural when OOP can do everything? Understanding OOP makes you just that much more valuable to employers.
    <


    and is beside the point, i believe that a mix of the two brings maximum effciency, productivity, and makes doing things easy, being locked into OOP is not always an advantage...

    but then again this is all just opinion.
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  2. #17
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >2. SEVERE LACK OF SECURITY!!

    Can you explain in detail what this means ? I cannot see how any security concept, even if it were buggy as hell, would be worse than having the C/C++/Win98 concept of "click it, run it, pray it does no harm". I don't think .NET lacks security and I don't see any other security concept around that is worth noting.

    The rest of the points are personal oppinion. I feel the other way about those stuff.
    hth
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  3. #18
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    >would be worse than having the C/C++/Win98 concept of "click it, run it, pray it does no harm". I don't think .NET lacks security and I don't see any other security concept around that is worth noting.
    <

    all im sayin though im not to clear on it is it not as secure and "Unhackable" as MS claims the ass holes, sorry but BS like this gets on my nerves, especially when its being fed to people who don't know better or will never hear otherise. unhackable my butt.

    >
    The rest of the points are personal oppinion. I feel the other way about those stuff.
    <

    they were meant to be read, as my opinions. and only that.
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  4. #19
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >unhackable my butt.

    I didn't notice anybody saying it was unhackable. It's quite a nice concept. I guess there will be bugs. It was programmed by humans, it will have errors in it. But this isn't a disadvantage of .NET. C++ cannot breed pink elephants. But I wouldn't count this as a disadvantage of C++, because no one else can either.
    hth
    -nv

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  5. #20
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    I don't even know if .net and Java are true OOP languages, actually they don't support templates or multiple inheritance. I personally think that C++ is the only true language capable of OOP, and so much more.

    I think that mulitple inheritance and templates were too tough for Microsoft. They can hardly build a capable C++ compiler to begin with. This makes the arguement for those who say that they copied Java because it's almost exactly the same.

    Before judging the .net framework I'd like to learn how to use it, but that will obviously take some time because I have to continue to learn C++ and it would be a big mistake to depend too much on the .net framework.

    The framework is middleware. Java has proven that middleware is used and accepted widely. If middleware can solve my programming needs than I'll use it, however I don't think that it is capable of sovling all my needs. I'd like to approach it with some caution and give it some time to evolve.

    Zen is correct although a little bit extreme.

  6. #21
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    I dislike .NET and Microsofts intensions...

  7. #22
    Christian
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    High School student.

    1. What is .net
    .NET is more then the sum of it's parts, so listing some parts here will only give you a minimal outlook on what to expect.

    .NET is a framework of classes to handle programming.

    This framework is available to ALL languages that use .NET.
    This means I have the very same objects programming in C++.NET, VB.NET or Cobol.NET.

    .NET languages are compiled to MSIL ( Intermediate code ) which in turn is compiled by a just-in- time compiler when started on the target platform. Note that both steps are compiling. No interpretation here. As target platform, Windows exists, Linux will be available in the future through an open source project called Mono. Microsoft does not plan to extend it to other platforms, but the .NET framework and languages are standars, so anyone developing can give it a try.

    With .NET you have policies. Policies can restrict your code in a way that Java applets try today. Today, you have the choice between no rights ( Java applets ) or all rights ( ActiveX elements ). With .NET you can give rights as you choose. You want internet files only access one of your printers and only drive D: in readonly mode ? Sure, no problem.

    .NET comes with a new language, C#. C# and VB.NET are really good at RAD. With a feel like Borland, but all internal advantages Borland misses ( like full Unicode support ), .NET made a great leap from C++ with MFC to something as fast in execution but super-easy in developing.

    Finally, if you don't like one element of a .NET language, you can always choose another language. You can compile all of them into one project. Theoretically, you can do this now, but everyone who did it knows it's a pain in the ass to work around all the limitations. This is time that could as well be spent coding something useful. So in .NET, you can have a VB.NET class in your project. Add a C# file and create a class that uses the VB-class as a baseclass. Create a C++ class that uses the C# class as baseclass. You can now use this class in any language you choose to it's full extend. Without worrying about calling conventions, datatypes, registering dlls or something like that.
    Obviously, you can do this in any order, not just the one given above.

    2. What languages are supported by .net
    C++ C# VB ADO Smalltalk, elfial,
    3. Are there any problems with .net
    Yes, Sun, and high java users love to bash it. Mainly because it's made by microsoft.
    4. If .net and C# have been summited to the ecma were can I view it?
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/

    5. What are the diffences between .net and Java?
    a. Java can only use Java, .net can use numeres languages
    b. Java is slower, since everytime the program runs it is interputed, .net programs compile to .exe files the first time they are run.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

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  8. #23
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    So noone is really zen??!!!

    ...who woulda known? Hey Zen! Good to have ya "back"



    ITSA
    Socket Library!

  9. #24
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    >So noone is really zen??!!!

    Nope.
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  10. #25
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    noone is not zen. Okay here is the problem. C++ only provide half of the solution. Why the hell doesn't the C++'ers describe COM and the MS OS. I really hate them for their weakness. I think that both C++ers and .neters suck big time.

  11. #26
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    Zenny, oh I shouldn't use his real name, goes by the name of Sorensen.

  12. #27
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    >>I don't even know if .net and Java are true OOP languages, actually they don't support templates or multiple inheritance. I personally think that C++ is the only true language capable of OOP, and so much more.<<

    Well, being the absolute brilliant mind you are, you've failed to realize that .NET isn't a language...it has languages that are true OOP and support multiple inheritance and templates, though...so here's a nice lil moot point.

    >>I think that mulitple inheritance and templates were too tough for Microsoft. They can hardly build a capable C++ compiler to begin with. This makes the arguement for those who say that they copied Java because it's almost exactly the same.<<

    Huh? First off VC++6 is a wonderful compiler, probably one of the most widely used. Second of all the rest of that makes absolutely no sense...

    >>Before judging the .net framework I'd like to learn how to use it

    I had a feeling you'd never used it before...

    >>all im sayin though im not to clear on it is it not as secure and "Unhackable" as MS claims the ass holes, sorry but BS like this gets on my nerves, especially when its being fed to people who don't know better or will never hear otherise. unhackable my butt.<<

    and you'd be completely within your bounds to feel that way if anyone had said that .NET was unhackable.

    >>1. I ABSOLUTLY CANNOT STAND FULL OOP! its disgusting... yuk... <<

    Then use a non-full OOP language? Like C++.NET. But I guess you'd forgot that .NET wasn't a language unto itself

    >>3. EVERYTHING RUNS ON THE SAME DAMN RUNTIME!! which could be good or bad for efficiency it depends on how well its implemented. lets hope well.<<

    It works very well, and allows for some neat things. The only problem is that when you run the EXE for the first time it starts slowly.

    >>4. MICROSOFT! nuf said.

    Obviously not...explain.

    >>5. I WILL NOT PARICIPATE IN THE PHASING OUT OF OLD STYLE PROGRAMMING, to where everything must be done on .NET and only .NET using MS certified OOP languages, NO I WILL NOT! <<

    Noone's phasing anything out, and even if the world was turning towards this new .NET-style programming, 1) Why stand in the way or progress? And 2) Noone's holding a gun to your head to use it.

    >>6. i don't think i need to go on because the uninformed will now assume i'm an unreasoned MS hating kiddy who reads to much Slashdot.<<

    indeed

  13. #28
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    >Huh? First off VC++6 is a wonderful compiler,

    not once you've tried anything else.

    >
    and you'd be completely within your bounds to feel that way if anyone had said that .NET was unhackable.
    <

    maybe thats a slight exaggeration but not much of one, read the BS they tell people...

    >
    Then use a non-full OOP language? Like C++.NET. But I guess you'd forgot that .NET wasn't a language unto itself
    <

    i'll stick with the real one thanks.

    > It works very well, and allows for some neat things. The only problem is that when you run the EXE for the first time it starts slowly.

    SEE SEEEEEE!!! .NET ALREADY SUCKS!!!! heheh.

    >Obviously not...explain.

    read my most recent new thead on the GD. for one example.

    secondly, don't get me started, i could go on for hours.( and i'm not freakin kidding.)

    >Noone's phasing anything out,

    whatever you say man...

    >Why stand in the way or progress?

    i don't call only programing for MS compliant platforms progress.

    >And 2) Noone's holding a gun to your head to use it.

    not yet... but they have a very large money/buisness vaccum
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  14. #29
    Registered User CompiledMonkey's Avatar
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    no-one, your "arguments" as you may think of them, are weak.

  15. #30
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    >i don't call only programing for MS compliant platforms progress.

    MONO

    .net and C# have both have emca commites and can be used on any platform, that supports them. Microsoft develpoped the support on windows and anyone else can develop support for others OSes and langueages.
    I shall call egypt the harmless dragon

    -Isaiah 30.7

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