Interview with M$ employee

This is a discussion on Interview with M$ employee within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; You might be right but I hope your not. If Sun can't match MS they will loose alot of market ...

  1. #16
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    You might be right but I hope your not. If Sun can't match MS they will loose alot of market share, and even if I don't really care about Sun it is one of they few companies that are holding the breaks on MS.

  2. #17
    Registered User CompiledMonkey's Avatar
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    It's MS that needs to do the catching. Sun is established with J2EE. Most enterprise applications in the past 3-4 years have been written using J2EE. It's now time for MS to try and leave a mark on Sun's sucess. Will they do it? I really don't know, depends on how well the tools have been built.

  3. #18
    Registered User Cruxus's Avatar
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    Okay, now it is time for me to insert something somewhat humorous--and ripped from one of former British prime minister Winston Churchill's speeches--into the conversation:


    A binary curtain is descending upon the world of software development. On the one side, we have Microsoft and the .NET platform; on the other, we have Sun Microsystems and the Java 2 platform. Make no mistake: The enemy seems similar enough to us; but, in reality, it is totally different. It is now time for the Software Development Department to choose sides: them or us; Microsoft and its .NET platform or Sun Microsystems and its Java 2 platform.

  4. #19
    Registered User CompiledMonkey's Avatar
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    You don't really need to choose one or the other. You can use both.

  5. #20
    ¡Amo fútbol!
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    It was a joke!

  6. #21
    Banned Troll_King's Avatar
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    The biggest difference between .net and Java is the software architecture that each of them are built upon. They are both frameworks (middleware). It wold be worthwhile to understand what frameworks are, define their architectures. That's more than most people who try to compare them attempt to uncover. This would be a good topic for the new FAQ if it comes to pass, however lets get some real research happening.

  7. #22
    aurë entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    >>So why is it an uneducated statment? What limitations is it that Java could not overcome that C# did?<<

    If a person does not know the limitations of Java from a technical and conceptual perspective, they cannot understand how C# could address these limitations. It's like people who say "C++ is just C with classes". That is a very narrow minded view to take, and often the one taken that people who don't understand either language very well.

    >>The biggest difference between .net and Java is the software architecture that each of them are built upon<<

    Exactly. The langauges of Java and C# do have similiar functionality because both languages were designed for a similar reason, but the underlying platforms on which they run would be quite different, as they are both proprietry.

    People need to think beyond the "school yard fight" view of Sun and Microsoft. Both are large corporations, both are trying to gain a competitive advantage within their industries.

  8. #23
    Visionary Philosopher Sayeh's Avatar
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    The problem is that C# wasn't needed, and Java didn't need to be developed as the 'end-all-be-all' language Sun has tried to make it.

    IMHO- It galls me no-end to see how some companies (like Lucent) began providing all their software written in Java. Clumsy, buggy crap. GUIs that don't behave well.. sucks. Java was not meant as a development language-- it was for webpage enhancement. Sun however, saw a marketing opportunity and tried to make it more than what it should have culminated at.

    If you watch long enough, you will see a definite pattern with companies like Microsoft-- they keep reinventing the wheel and selling it. Selling C# creates a whole new Marketing opportunity-- new C# compilers, C# books, C# groups, C# licenses, blah, blah, blah...

    That's why Microsoft keeps creating newer O/Ss. Reinvent the wheel. Usually they don't fix anything, they create more problems, and bring ever-faster computers to their knees.

    The _only_ good thing that's come out of Microsoft's burning need to halt a CPU in its tracks, is the Intel has met the challenge with increasingly faster processors.

    I have to stop now, I ran out of air.
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  9. #24
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    It is obviously true that both of these companies want to steal market share from each other, and attempt to advertise their frameworks as the only solution, and the way of the future.

    I think that the primary reason for .net was due to the success of Java.

    They definately reuse solutions. The idea of a framework did not originate at Microsoft or Sun. A framework is related to research in object oriented design and generic pattern design.

    I think that it is important to be able to put these technologies into a context so that they can be interpreted by developers.

  10. #25
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Troll_King
    I think that the primary reason for .net was due to the success of Java.
    I totally agree.......they tried their own Java (J++)....got stung in the process.....now there's C#....

    I've played with Java (writen a part of my website in JSP & sevlets), and its easy to see how people and companies are drawn to this stuff...One language to serve all your needs (database, web, server admin....etc)

    And as Sayeh said, the hardware producers are pushing and pushing to bring out more powerful stuff, and without this, half of this stuff could never get off the ground. Its not as if Software efficiency & Hardware efficiency are going at the same pace.....one is proping up the other...

  11. #26
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    I don't think that it is fair that Microsoft is able to write applications for their operating system. They should just write the operating system and that is it. Sun Microsystems obviosly discovered a way to compete on the MONOPOLY platform through an open standard, the internet, and internet protocols. I don't know if there was a technical solution for improving efficiency. The JVM runs on many platforms and it is the architecture for Java applications. It is very well planned. It is a great solution, probably the greatest solution of the 20th century. The Monopoly can't do anything about it, than can not control the JVM. Well, in some ways they have attempted to throw in some roadblocks because they control the web browser IE which hosts the JVM.

    This Microsoft is a pure Monopoly. Their solution ofcourse lies ontop of the OS, they are both frameworks, but lie ontop of different architectures. The Monopoly can control the OS implementation, but it can't do too much harm to Java, hence Java will persist and is likely still the best solution.

    Both of these technologies were written in C++ however. Java would be more worthwhile to study and understand because it can't be controlled and torn down by a Monopoly. Sun Microsystems is no angel but their solution is the best. I wouldn't mind writing my own framework in C++ and build it ontop of TCP/IP and the browser, just like Java.
    Last edited by Troll_King; 08-16-2002 at 04:52 AM.

  12. #27
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >Java would be more worthwhile to study and understand
    >because it can't be controlled and torn down by a Monopoly.

    uhm... Java is a monopoly. No open standards.
    hth
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  13. #28
    Banned Troll_King's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about how to be a Java end user. I'm talking about how to build a virtual machine ontop of open standards. Sure, Java is a monopoly of the JVM/OS, but the whole point that I keep trying to explain is that it is more worthwhile to understand the technologies, how they are implemented, what architecture they are built on and why, and what was the bases or source of their designs related to the history of software solutions. I'm afraid that this is what Sun and Microsoft do in part, but not enough developers are investing in understanding the technology. Did you know that there are reasons as to why things are the way they are? A developer should use objective analysis in order to interpret these technologies, and should be able to identify the context for which the solution was developed.

  14. #29
    PC Fixer-Upper Waldo2k2's Avatar
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    troll-
    i don't mean to step on your toes here...but it seems to me that every post you have (at least the 100 or so i've seen) tie whatever the thread was about into the evils of the software monopolies (usually ms the implicit target) and the wonders of open standards/source/anything open. That's all well and good, but could you argue about something related to the post?
    This guy wanted to know more about the reasoning in developing C#...i'm pretty sure he (and many others) don't care about your opinion here (pertaining to all that monopoly crap you rattled off about). They don't care mostly because you continue to repeat yourself every chance you get. Find something else to rant about.
    PHP and XML
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  15. #30
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    Obviously you see the light, but you still choose to hide from the truth. Shame on you.

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