View Poll Results: Who contributed more to the defeat of Hitler's Germany ??

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  • USA

    14 35.00%
  • Russia

    14 35.00%
  • British Empire

    7 17.50%
  • Who cares ???

    4 10.00%
  • Who was Hitler ?????

    1 2.50%

Who contributed most to the defeat of Fascist Germany ??

This is a discussion on Who contributed most to the defeat of Fascist Germany ?? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; is MAROQUE what i'd call Morocco.?? morocco and algeria were combined in what was called "french north africa" at the ...

  1. #31
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
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    is MAROQUE what i'd call Morocco.??
    morocco and algeria were combined in what was called "french north africa" at the time, so i dunno the situation. Sultan of Maroque may have been independant or semi-independant,
    but certainly the free french were not taking a poll of these people to ask if they wantd to support france, thats my original point (niether were we for british empire folks- but canada, australia, new zealand, south africa, india etc all joined in willingly)
    Last edited by stevey; 04-15-2002 at 02:28 PM.
    Steve

  2. #32
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    > is MAROQUE what i'd call Morocco.??

    I think it's the same. I didn't know the English word. But it's the country at west of Algeria and right south of Spain.

    Churchill asked the sultan for support of Morocco's army and he didn't ask France. Morocco was almost independent.

    >but certainly the free french were not taking a poll of these
    >people to ask if they wantd to support france, thats my original
    >point (niether were we for british empire folks- but canada,
    >australia, new zealand, south africa, india etc all joined in
    >willingly)

    Did South Africa join willingly? Wasn't there the Farmers War in South Africa?

    Well, I don't think that colonialisation (?) is willingly. I cannot imagine people saying "yes, come here to rule us". Though I know from Dutch history that people in Indonesia didn't know the Dutch were going to rule. The VOC, the main Dutch company in Indonesia, was going to Indonesia for bussiness. The opened some offices there and worked together with the locals. Much later the army came and the war.

  3. #33
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Clyde
    "British and Soviet scientists (instead of US/British) get the atom bomb first (Germans were miles behind),"

    The German's weren't that far behind, however Heisenberg (who was overseeing the development of the German bomb) always claimed that he would have sabotaged research if they had actually got past the development phase.
    i think you'll find they were a long long way behind, at least from what ive been seeing on TV and read.
    Einstein deserves a lot of credit for convincing Roosevelt that a atom bomb was feasable, a great many European and American Physicists also.
    Hitler thought atom bombs were unfeasable (and to their credit some german scientists helped in that thinking) so instead the germans put most money into rocket science, VI, VII, jet fighters etc, which were wonderful weopons but the nuclear bomb ends all resistance !!!
    the US set up the Manhatten project and brought in all European emigre scientists and british scientists to help their own men(another combined effort) and voila, US have the first bomb.
    thank god Hitler didn't get one first !!
    and all the rocket stuff was only good to base the US space program on !!
    ps
    the USA wouldn't have got the first atom bomb if they hadn't entered the war !!
    Last edited by stevey; 04-15-2002 at 02:41 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Originally posted by Shiro
    > is MAROQUE what i'd call Morocco.??

    I think it's the same. I didn't know the English word. But it's the country at west of Algeria and right south of Spain.

    Churchill asked the sultan for support of Morocco's army and he didn't ask France. Morocco was almost independent.

    >but certainly the free french were not taking a poll of these
    >people to ask if they wantd to support france, thats my original
    >point (niether were we for british empire folks- but canada,
    >australia, new zealand, south africa, india etc all joined in
    >willingly)

    Did South Africa join willingly? Wasn't there the Farmers War in South Africa?

    Well, I don't think that colonialisation (?) is willingly. I cannot imagine people saying "yes, come here to rule us". Though I know from Dutch history that people in Indonesia didn't know the Dutch were going to rule. The VOC, the main Dutch company in Indonesia, was going to Indonesia for bussiness. The opened some offices there and worked together with the locals. Much later the army came and the war.
    yes Maroque is Morocco.

    similar to the East India company taking over India for Britain !!

    yes, but i'm giving credit where credit is due,
    Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand joined in against Hitler to protect Britain. all willingly, since they are independant nations, linked only by "the commonwealth".

    india also, praps to a lesser extent since they wanted indepenance, they weren't independant ntil 1948. they had good reason to fight the japanese though.
    Steve

  5. #35
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    >yes, but i'm giving credit where credit is due,
    >Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand joined in against
    >Hitler to protect Britain. all willingly, since they are independant
    >nations, linked only by "the commonwealth".

    Ah, that's what you meant. I thought you were still talking about the situation in North-Africa where the North-African certainly didn't join the French empire willingly.

    So we talked about different things.

  6. #36
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    Since the thread is about eh contribution, I think it's fair to say that it's not only based on who "kicked Hitler's butt most" but also on the losses by the countries.

    Originally posted by stevey
    worse than that i feel is the contribution of the Free Poles being neglected. The Poles suffered more than most, losing >10% of the population killed (6.5 million) and being effectively taken over by communism after the war. few Free Poles were able to return to the country they fought for, due to the communists, so most settled throughout Europe, mainly Britain.
    thats why we have a large Polish minority, god bless em all...


    and

    current figures believed to be-"from The times-atlas of WWII"
    25 million soviets
    292,100 Americans
    331,000 British
    up to 10 million Chinese civilians, 1,324,000 Chinese soldiers.
    I think the numbers above say a lot. To an average citizen of these countries it was not as important which country had the best fighter planes or the first bomb, but the loss of human lives was what counted, loss of the loved ones. Imagine: 10% of the population... or 25 million people from one country...
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  7. #37
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    oh well......

    talking of colonialism, it is a bad thing but unavoidable probably in those days...ie if the dutch didn't take somebody over, the British/French/Belgians etc would.....a weak nation was going to be taken over....sad but human nature....

    one thing is though, thinking about the British Empire, it is good that so many countries once belonging to the British Empire are doing well, stable decent democracies etc

    Canada, NZ,Australia have strong friendly links with Britain, the Indians and Pakistani s dont hate us, America (not part of empire but a colony) don't hate us,
    the British Empire was a good thing at the time, of course it passed its sell by date !!
    apparantly it is the only empire in history given up voluntarily and where the native peoples do not hate the "mother country"
    Steve

  8. #38
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    "i think you'll find they were a long long way behind, at least from what ive been seeing on TV and read"

    Oh, I saw a play called "Copenhagen" (it's very good) which decribes the meeting Heisenberg had with Bohr, part of the dialog reveals that at several key points the German scientist were mere days behing their American counterparts.

    Ok I just looked it up, and it seems they were very close up to the point (i think it was in 1942) when Heisenberg submitted a paper in which he "miscalculated" the critical mass, from that point German research toward the bomb crumbled... seems you were right

    What's funny (well it's not that funny) is that Hitler got rid of all his best scientists because so many were Jewish!! If he hadn't Germany might well have produced the bomb.

    EDIT: The more i read the more apparent it is that the Germans were very much behind....... hmm... maybe it was "artistic license"
    Last edited by Clyde; 04-15-2002 at 03:15 PM.

  9. #39
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    >>I think the numbers above say a lot. To an average citizen of these countries it was not as important which country had the best fighter planes or the first bomb, but the loss of human lives was what counted, loss of the loved ones. Imagine: 10% of the population... or 25 million people from one country...

    it defies my imagination, it is truly appalling how many died....
    the atrocities............

    and correction, for the Poles it was 6.5 million, or 18 % of the entire population !!!!!!!!
    18% of everybody in the country.......jesus.......

    little known appalling facts ->

    5 million Russian prisoners were captured
    3 million were starved or worked to death or executed by the Germans
    2 million returned home, 1 million died in labour camps on return to the USSR(Stalin thought them traitors !)

    1 million Japanese prisoners were taken by USSR when they attacked Manchuria and other Jap conquests.
    most were never seen again.(not that the japs were especially nice to their prisoners!)
    Steve

  10. #40
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    Originally posted by Clyde
    "i think you'll find they were a long long way behind, at least from what ive been seeing on TV and read"

    Oh, I saw a play called "Copenhagen" (it's very good) which decribes the meeting Heisenberg had with Bohr, part of the dialog reveals that at several key points the German scientist were mere days behing their American counterparts.

    Ok I just looked it up, and it seems they were very close up to the point (i think it was in 1942) when Heisenberg submitted a paper in which he "miscalculated" the critical mass, from that point German research toward the bomb crumbled... seems you were right

    What's funny (well it's not that funny) is that Hitler got rid of all his best scientists because so many were Jewish!! If he hadn't Germany might well have produced the bomb.

    EDIT: The more i read the more apparent it is that the Germans were very much behind....... hmm... maybe it was "artistic license"
    hey look, i am ALWAYS RIGHT !!!! he he but seriously history is my pet subject, i'm not as daft as some folks think !!

    re JEWS, yeah good point, Einstein of course was Jewish, and many other leading scientists, and they were not disposed to help Hitler !!!! good job, he'd have taken the world if he'd got it first, theres no doubt !!! hey Clyde, mebe there is a god !!
    Steve

  11. #41
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    Russia, they lost like a bzillion people. I say they "contributed" the most.

  12. #42
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    Originally posted by Brian
    Russia, they lost like a bzillion people. I say they "contributed" the most.
    contributions are not necessarily weighed in body bags, but thats what i think.

    a fact that isn't always appreciated in the West.

    14.5 million dead in uniform
    7/10 million civilians

    is a current estimate of dead.

    and 1 million more russian soldiers died after the war (killed by Stalin)

    counting the purges and starvation caused by Stalin, killing about 10 million people before the war.the suffering of the USSR people is incredible..............

    ive been..
    quote -> "my grandparents starved to death, my parents starved, at least under communism i'm not starving "
    reply when i was in Russia having a go at communism...(thats a while ago for all you embryo's !!!)
    Steve

  13. #43
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    "hey look, i am ALWAYS RIGHT !!!! he he but seriously history is my pet subject"

    Heh, guess i should stick to science

  14. #44
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    Russia had a huge impact on the war because of there numbers. Well Britain was able to hold the Germans off, chances are they might not have been able to continue to do so, no less advance into Europe. The United States entering the war put an elephant on the scales of the war on the sides of the allies. Though to be fair, the war took a joint effort.

    As for the atomic bomb the United States was far a head of everyone. Germany concentrated on rockets, not the Bomb. Also the Soviet Union got a leap in development as a result of a spy.
    Last edited by Sentaku senshi; 04-15-2002 at 07:26 PM.
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  15. #45
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    The result was clearly a joint effort between all countres fighting for the allies.
    Except France, they were just plane useless.

    Oh and as far as the war against Japan goes, thanks for your help "mother England".
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