To all Americans

This is a discussion on To all Americans within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; the British goverment tried hard to defeat the IRA, but in a democracy especially one such as ours with high ...

  1. #46
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    8,825
    the British goverment tried hard to defeat the IRA, but in a democracy especially one such as ours with high regard for individuals rights etc, terrorism can and will win. it is doing in Northern Ireland.
    it was made especially difficult by the large amounts of money sent from the US to the terrorists, albeit not directly and by private citizens. but more could have been done by the US govn. that little was done was due mainly to the 40 million or so irish-american voters who had sympathy to the cause of a united ireland, and who donated cash to various dubious organisations..
    Open your damn eyes! If you think 40 million Americans have donated money to the IRA, I've got a big bridge to sell you. Also - our gov't hands are tied in a similar manner to yours. What makes ours somehow responsible, and yours is the down-trodden?

  2. #47
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    759
    i doubt whether more than a few thousand donate directly to the IRA they have very little support, and yet theyve been allowed to win. it does vex me deeply.
    its indirectly -due to ignorance i feel-that monies found/find their way to those nutters.
    and to tar 40million people with the same brush is ridiculous, true, sorry.

    ""Here's the point, genius: the American people have no more control over what the United States government does than you do.""
    mmmmm, well you should have in a democracy. just didn't really know or really care is my view. and it seems to me that pressure groups always come out on top, because 90%of voters in most countries are apathetic. so extremists can previal whilst actually having little support.

    the USA is THE country and has VAST power, wealth and influence but has a largely apathetic and ignorant voting public.(then again so do most countries)
    so maybe in some ways the american people ARE the problem ?????

    but the whole subject isn't the kind to be debated here, that is true, got drawn into it irresistably..............
    then again, the thread is still top of the charts !!!!!!
    and if you read the link submitted by RobR, you can see there is some truth in my original comment. some soul searching is being done, a lot of people agree with me..........
    Steve

  3. #48
    B26354 Deckard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    633
    Originally posted by stevey
    the USA is THE country and has VAST power, wealth and influence but has a largely apathetic and ignorant voting public.(then again so do most countries)
    so maybe in some ways the american people ARE the problem ?????
    This is a topic which you demonstrate little knowledge of. The voters of the United States do not get to vote on topics or policies; they are not the problem.
    Jason Deckard

  4. #49
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    759
    i know, fair enough.

    no voter in any democracy votes on actual detailed polices etc
    i wonder if we ought to??
    but the overall views of a population should filter up to the government hopefully ????
    maybe not always, my view is that most voters are ignorant and apathetic and thats a problem for all democracies.
    currently in the UK we have Animal Rights terrorists, who may acheive many of their aims thru terrorism(they have very extreme views by the way), although they have i bet about 0.01% support in the population. terrorism is not democratic .

    anyway
    the situation in Northern Ireland was never a suitable topic for discussion here, you were right, (in fact politics as a whole), so thats it, back to jokey comments or none at all, and begging help with coding ........
    Steve

  5. #50
    B26354 Deckard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    633
    Originally posted by stevey
    i wonder if we ought to??
    I think so. I would entertain the notion of a quarterly (or reasonably often) nationwide vote on topics normally addressed by the legislative branch. There would be many things to work out, but I believe it could be done.

    Originally posted by stevey
    but the overall views of a population should filter up to the government hopefully ????
    Yes, yes, yes! A government should be a tool of the people.

    Originally posted by stevey
    my view is that most voters are ignorant and apathetic and thats a problem for all democracies.
    I agree. In fact, I suspect this is the reason the government has such overwhelming power: enough people don't see it as a problem, or just don't care. However, it may not make a difference. I care, I vote, and I have no impact ;)
    Jason Deckard

  6. #51
    Peace
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,510
    >>Here's the point, genius: the American people have no more control over what the United States government does than you do.

    And they call themselves a democracy... heh... Here in Canada we tend to do this thing called 'vote' (and then we all b*tch about who got voted in regardless of whether we voted for them or not... Its a Canadian thing, you wouldnt understand ). Now, i see that in the US you find the whole voting process really hard to grasp so you tend to skip that part and let whoever has the most lawyers and speach writers win by default. But after we do that voting thing here, we're allowed certain rights (beyond b*tching about it, that is). For instance; when the government does something we dont like (as in; pretty much anything) we start 400 million groups to assess the situation and get it changed so that we can b*tch about the government being wishy-washy...

    Hey look! I can mock two governments/countries at the exact same time! Its a proud day.
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  7. #52
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    759
    >>... Here in Canada we tend to do this thing called 'vote' (and then we all b*tch about who got voted in regardless of whether we voted for them or not... Its a Canadian thing, you wouldnt understand

    its not a Canadian thing, we all do it !!!!

    talking about apathetic, what proportion of the average population of a democracy actually vote ?????
    anyone know ??????
    Steve

  8. #53
    Peace
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,510
    >>what proportion of the average population of a democracy actually vote

    It depends on the country. I vaguely recal some number around 85% here in Canada... Of those that can legally vote of course... Thats not a very good percent but comparing it to certain other countries we suddenly look a lot better...

    I dont understand anyone not voting. I turned legal age barely a month before an election... I had read every paper, news release, and propaganda pamplet out there (those would be the sheets of lies each party (yes, we have more than two options here) give out saying things like; "We will solve world hunger and find the cure for cancer if you vote for us."). It matters to me whos running the country i live in. So i vote.
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  9. #54
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    759
    i think 85 % is a lot !! thats very good, i'd like to know the % of the USA for interest sake.
    i cant remember how many voted in our last election, 60% or was it less ???? i'd be interested.

    in the UK we basically have two parties, they used to be poles apart but are now almost exactly the same, the differences are relatively small. i believe in the US thats similar situation.

    doesn't give a voter much choice really does it ?????
    Steve

  10. #55
    Peace
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,510
    >>i think 85 % is a lot

    Dont quote me on that. I'm pulling this from memory and sometimes stuff that comes from there is not what I expected.


    >>i believe in the US thats similar situation.

    They do. But last time they decided to vote based on who was the craziest nutcase. Of course Curious George won. Personally i was rooting for the other guy. He seemed less likely to choke on a pretzel and get carpet burn on his face...
    "There's always another way"
    -lightatdawn (lightatdawn.cprogramming.com)

  11. #56
    B26354 Deckard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    633

    Voter apathy

    During a Google search to put a number on U.S. voter apathy, I stumbled across this. The author attempts to justify not voting. CAUTION: Some profanity.

    According to this link, only 54% percent of eligible voters have turned out for presidential elections in America over the past forty years.
    Jason Deckard

  12. #57
    Aran
    Guest
    >albeit not directly and by private citizens

    get your ideas straight: first you yelling at our govenment, now you're saying citizens are doing it?

    I'm not with the terrorists..... i'm kinda with America. Bush's reasoning is bullcrap. There are grey areas, but he just needs someone to bomb.

  13. #58
    My diaper's full....... stevey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    759
    thanx
    interesting links
    a choice between a bucket of **** and a bucket of puke..interesting analogy!!
    ive found a link that says that for our last election we had a 59.38% turnout. better than the US but its not good.

    also intesting, twice since 1945 a party has formed a government whilst actually getting less votes !!! because they won more seats.
    in the US you have just had a similar occurence i believe, although the difference was tiny i think Bush got less votes overall didn't he ???

    i guess proportional representation has its own problems, i guess we have the best system possible ????

    its interesting that the founder of democracy ( Democles or something) in ancient greece, thought that a benign dictactorship was the best form of government. trouble is how do we make sure they are benign ??
    Steve

  14. #59
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    8,825
    > trouble is how do we make sure they are benign ??

    Well, let me do it. I'll be benign. Promise.

    Just don't mess with me.

    > although the difference was tiny i think Bush got less votes overall didn't he ???

    Yeah - that's happened a few other times, too... The electoral college should be thrown out.

  15. #60
    Aran
    Guest
    >the electoral college should be thrown out

    so true. It is a holdover from a time when it took a week to get news across the nation if you were lucky; it is a holdover from when the government was afraid that people, being misinformed or not informed, would vote for someone who was completely unfit for the job of President.

    it should just be a popular vote, that would be the most democratic thing we could do.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. Native Americans and their Norse roots?
    By Sebastiani in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-13-2009, 09:33 AM
  2. Is this REALLY how Americans view the world
    By Fountain in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 11-21-2002, 01:34 PM
  3. Americans guide to English abuse - pt1
    By RobR in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-21-2002, 09:44 AM
  4. Independent-Robert Fisk-Osama
    By a muslim in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-18-2001, 08:41 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21