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This is a discussion on Will you sign up to fight? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally posted by novacain >>Osama bin laden uses money from his parents, which likely came from America .He uses American ...

  1. #106
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by novacain
    >>Osama bin laden uses money from his parents, which likely came from America .He uses American made computers on the american made internet using american made routers and computer parts.

    You forgot with CIA training from America.
    The money is from construction in the middle east, including roads in Sudan.

    He was trained, as were many wealthy Saudi young men, by the CIA to fight a terrorist war against Russia. When he returned to Saudi he was angry that America did not leave and continues to bomb Iraq, over 3000 missions last year alone. When did the war end against Iraq? When will the sanctions end?
    He considers Americans invaders in Islams holy land, there to help support the invading Isralies (only there since 1945).
    If not for America, the middle east would not be so unstable.
    America propped up the Shah of Iran. Then America supplied Sadam against Iran. Then everybody against Sadam. Supplied Afganistan against the Russians and the Isralies against everyone else.

    Hey Ronny Raygun even had Iran indirectly helping Nicaraguan rebels. Course he had to sell Iran guns to do it.

    If you don't believe me, CHECK.

    I seem to have missed the bit where evidence of a crime is presented and the guilty detemined.
    Oh thats right it was on CNN so it must be true.
    Don't say a word about Kuwait . No. Don't say anything about blowing up Kuwaiti oil derricks and the resulting oil slick.
    Of course not. Don't say anything about Saddam's nuclear
    project, his biological project. Oh no, no, no, no, no. That wouldn't
    be fair. Saddam's a great guy. We all know that. He's protecting
    us from the Iranians. And of course it was all a CNN lie that he
    invaded Saudi Arabia, too. Tsk, tsk. Shame on them .
    And what, save that he was the one responsible for getting our
    hostages out of barbaric Tehran, what does Ronald Reagan have
    to do with any of this? We talking today, not ancient history.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  2. #107
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Fordy
    >>Osama bin laden uses money from his parents, which likely came from America

    I read an interesting article today on the train coming into work.

    It is often said that Bin Laden has amassed a huge fortune of > $300m, and that he gets a huge return on this money every year…… The article initially pointed out that to date, America has been unable to locate let alone freeze these funds…… This is very strange when you consider the huge amount of money this fortune would represent. To get these returns, the money would easily be visible to an organisation like the CIA…… but yet it has not been frozen……why?

    The article went on to say that when Bin Laden’s father died, the fortune from the family’s construction empire was split amongst a huge amount of brothers (estimated at perhaps 50). Also, when Bin Laden was associated with terrorism in the early 90’s, his Saudi assets were instantly frozen, and his family stopped giving him his annual allowance. Therefore the idea that he walked away with a huge fortune is fundamentally flawed.

    The article went on to say that it was more likely that Bin Laden gets frequent donations from sympathetic Arab governments on the hush. They can simply send the money via one of the laundering processes that are common in that part of the world. No huge fortunes sitting around means that the money can not be traced. When this disaster took place, these governments could simply feign shock and nothing could tie them to this atrocity – unless Bin Laden came clean…… this makes me wonder what countries would be sh#tting themselves if Bin Laden was captured by the US.
    Fordy: I read the news the other day. It said of the supposed
    $300 million Bin Laden fortune, one half was donated to
    the fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. The rest of
    the article said pretty much the same as what you have.
    I think the search for any terrorist network money is being
    expanded and intensified. At least I would hope so. A tv
    report yesterday showed film of a muslim school filled
    with little terrorists, who showed no lack of enthusiasm
    when they told the interviewer, "If you kill Osama Bin
    Laden, there are a thousand of us waiting to take his
    place." Nice thought. We need to find the money. Without
    that they are powerless. We can never kill them all. We
    didn't kill all the Germans or Japanese; we just made it
    impossible for them to wage war. That's our mission here.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  3. #108
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    Originally posted by Koshare
    Isreal has signed just about every peace agreement put on the table, and has lived up to their end of the bargain in most instances, while the other side makes a routine of breaking it?

    Afghanistan and Osama bin laden are not a serious threat to Isreal, PLO and palestine terrorists are...
    This is so true.

    Yassir Arafat is every bit as bad as Bin Laden. And yet the Israelis went as far as to sit w/him at peace talks- and he was the one who would not compromise!

    Can you imagine the reaction in the U.S. if the world said, "Hey don't get so excited. You will just keep encouraging violence if you attack or imprison Bin Laden. Come meet with him and work out a negotiated peace. Maybe give up some parts of New York for him to keep. It will make everything better"

    People here would go nuts. There is no way we would do it.

    But that is exactly what we have asked Israel to do. And even more unbelievable, they did it.

    It is time we really supported Israel fully. It is time we stop coddling these terrorists.

    A good quote I heard on the radio today from a guy here in town- "Last week it was Amazing Grace, this week it is Battle Hymn of the Republic"
    He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.

  4. #109
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    "Don't say anything about Saddam's nuclear
    project, his biological project. "

    He will make the excuse of self defense lol.


    "Then America supplied Sadam against Iran. Then everybody against Sadam. Supplied Afganistan against the Russians and the Isralies against everyone else. "

    What that looks like is that America has been backstabbed by everybody EXCEPT Isreal.


    Look at it this way, America is the big guy. Everybody hates the big guy, and at the same time wants to be him. All of the mistakes of the big guy is 100 times worse then any mistakes of the little guy.

    a little foreshadowing...
    In the story of David and Goliath their is a part which doesnt get much attention. David took 5 stones to fight Goliath, he knew that God would allow him to kill Goliath with one stone. He took the other 4 to kill Goliaths brothers...

    Anybody know of the confrence at Durban? oh yes, even the conspiracy theorists probably dont know about it. 1 week before the attack on the WTC, Isreal and America pulled out of Durban early because of Anti - Zionism/Jews that is reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Watch the video feeds online (cant remeber where). This came from mostly arab nations. Durban was a conference on anti racism, it was a miserable failure.
    Last edited by Koshare; 09-19-2001 at 11:04 AM.

  5. #110
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    Originally posted by MechanicX
    I was thinking about the car incident as well. Why would they leave such stuff just lying in the car and leave the car right there?

    If I was planning this thing, I would make sure that I got no loose ends. This includes even killing the weaker ones that were involved.
    You’re right MechanicX. Actually, here in Saudi Arabia you will usually find these kind of things written in English not in Arabic. So I don’t know how, if an Arabic person did it, how did they become in Arabic and not in English?!


    Originally posted by Theologian
    America should wake up to what Israel lives with every day. Children are brought up in Palestine in a constant atmosphere of this kind of hate and misinformation.
    Children in Palestine see there loved ones killed or tortured everyday by israeli people that came to there land and want them ,Palestinian, to leave it .So do you expect them to love israeli people??
    By the way…israelis use weapons against Palestinian kids which just use stones, and you call them terrorists??


    Originally posted by rick barclay
    To the one who calls himself muslim: You and your Iranian
    friends who make the same claim and anybody simple-
    minded enough to believe you are freakin idiots.
    Thank you for being so nice. And I have to repeat my question. Do you have any proof it was Osama Bin Laden? Or any Muslim or Arabic person??
    By the way…Taliban said if the U.S would give them one proof it was Bin Laden then they would give him to the U.S (Sorry I don’t know what is the correct word in English.)


    Originally posted by Koshare
    "You mean it is o.k. if someone killed half of your kids?"

    so you are telling me that a country that devotes many people that could be farmers to the military, is all fine and dandy, and we should support them in there need to have a well fed military ready for invasion?
    I’m telling you not to kill innocent kids and not to kill innocent civilians. I’m not saying support their military, just don’t kill the innocent! By the way.. after what happened in Iraq, saddam and his close people are the people living their normal lives like nothing happened and the innocent people are the ones who are suffering.
    During what happened in Iraq…Some innocent people were at a shelter (I think that what you call it in English?) and the U.N bombs hit part of it in a way that just part of the roof fell down and the shelter (?) was designed so all the doors will be closed incase of an attack so no one was able to leave. And after that another U.N bomb hit the place from the hole in the roof and it burned everyone in there alive… I know this story from a witness that have been there at that time and even after days of that you can still smell the burnt meet. And ofcourse, the news would never mention that it was innocent civilians. I know this kind of stuff happens all the time, but why not try to stop it? I’m not saying support saddam I’m just saying don’t kill any more innocent people.


    Originally posted by Koshare
    Isreal has signed just about every peace agreement put on the table, and has lived up to their end of the bargain in most instances, while the other side makes a routine of breaking it?
    Correction.. israel never do that. Actually now in Palestine they said you should stop the shooting and the Palestinian were the first to stop and I don’t think israelis did?

  6. #111
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    Originally posted by Koshare
    if he had the world the way he wanted everybody would be a muslim whose wife is fully clothed and is not able to speak\ be seen in public.
    As a muslim woman, I tell you that I am really lucky to be a muslim. And I’m able to speak and be seen in public. And if you want to know anymore about how woman is treated in Islam go to http://www.islamweb.net/english/
    http://www.islamweb.net/english/family/woman/woman.htm


    Originally posted by bigtamscot
    Do the business.
    We all want them to “Do the business” just do not do it to the wrong people.


    Originally posted by adrianxw
    a muslim:

    Many good points in the post, and a few not so good. Many, on both sides have already been debated somewhat. I would like to mention your point 3, concerning the guy with the video camera. If, like me, you've ever been to New York, you can't have failed to notice the literally hundreds of people wandering around with video cameras in, what is after all, a popular global tourist destination. It is no suprise to me that 4-5 different views of the same incident have appeared. Remember back a year to the Concorde crash in France, no suspicion of terrorism, a simple accident, and yet even there, at an airport, there turned up 4-5 different videos of the burning plane taking off.
    Sorry. I have never been to N.Y before and I didn’t write all this. I got it by email, Sorry.


    Originally posted by Theologian
    Yassir Arafat is every bit as bad as Bin Laden. And yet the Israelis went as far as to sit w/him at peace talks- and he was the one who would not compromise!
    Just to let you know… Yassir Arafat always listen to what the U.S tell him to do. Even if it made him hurt Palestinian but israel never do listen.


    Originally posted by Thelogian
    Can you imagine the reaction in the U.S. if the world said, "Hey don't get so excited. You will just keep encouraging violence if you attack or imprison Bin Laden. Come meet with him and work out a negotiated peace. Maybe give up some parts of New York for him to keep. It will make everything better"
    I think I asked this question lots of times before but I have to ask you again. Do you have any proof it was Osama Bin Laden??

    By the way… About 700 muslim people died in the WTC. So if it was a muslim person who did this wouldn’t he atleast bomb any other place that doesn’t got any muslims in it?? And I said this before but I have to say it again, in Islam, it is wrong to kill innocent people.

  7. #112
    No Genius That's For Sure
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    Originally posted by a muslim

    Just to let you know… Yassir Arafat always listen to what the U.S tell him to do. Even if it made him hurt Palestinian but israel never do listen.


    I think I asked this question lots of times before but I have to ask you again. Do you have any proof it was Osama Bin Laden??

    I do not believe that Yassir Arafat is innocent in this or does what the U.S. tells him to do. He may distance himself from the violence by the U.S. through intermediaries but he is none the less culpable.

    This is also the case with bin Laden. He may not be directly responsible. But he did create the organisation, facilitate the network and make this possible.

    I do not doubt for a moment that the federal government has real evidence that links him to these attacks as well as the previous attacks on the WTC. The talibans claim that they will turn him over to a "neutral Islamic" country for trial upon receiving proof is merely a sham to buy more time to hide him and themselves.

    He has publicly stated that he would destroy the WTC and he has called for muslims to kill every American man, woman and child. I watched him say that himself on TV. There can be no disputing that he is a self-acclaimed murderer and terrorist.

    You are correct that true Islam does not teach these things. I agree with President Bush that Osama bin Laden and those who work with him are blasphemers of Allah and traitors to their own faith.

    He claims innocence and denies involvement in this because we have done what he did not expect. We are reacting by taking action.

    In the same interview that he called for every single American citizen to be murdered, he said that "we" (his compatriots) can defeat the American armies because they do not have the will to fight. He personally claimed credit for the killing of American soldiers in Beirut and Somalia.

    And as for them not attacking the WTC because muslims were there. Don't you see- he is not a true Muslim and he does not care if he kills other muslims. He is a fascist, totalitarian leader like Hitler. He follows no law but his own.

    When his suicidal follower killed the leader of the Afghanni resistance, he showed his obvious willingness to kill those of his own race and religion.

    To try and blame these acts on Israel is immoral, irrational and without basis. (This was the thrust of the post that I responded to)

    And one last quick note-- the original post called into question the validity of the images of Palestinians celebrating the attack. I believe that CNN has made it very clear that this was real footage filmed following the attack. It was not old or fake. Check out CNN.com if you have any doubts.
    He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.

  8. #113
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    Originally posted by a muslim
    [B]

    I’m telling you not to kill innocent kids and not to kill innocent civilians. I’m not saying support their military, just don’t kill the innocent! By the way.. after what happened in Iraq, saddam and his close people are the people living their normal lives like nothing happened and the innocent people are the ones who are suffering.
    I belive it is wrong to kill innocents and we try not kill them. I can't think of anything that would help the people of Iraq or any place else like that. They suffer as a result of there leaders not the U.S.A. Liffting senctions would only make Saddam and his close freinds would get richer very little would change about the rest of the people.
    To Err Is To Be Human. To Game Is Divine!"

  9. #114
    aurë entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    The cold hard fact of war is innocent people will die. Either through intention or through accident.

  10. #115
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    Angry

    I can't belive how many people are in support of the war. Don't they understand that Bin Laden (if it was him) did this in order to start a war? If you join the war you will not be fighting for your country but for your president. My self I would not even want to just "set up computers" if it's for that idiot president of ours and would be used to kill. I ask that you look at things more closely and think things through before deciding to have a war.

  11. #116
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    I would like to add that Bin Laden is probably more powerful then all of Afganistan and they don't even have the power to turn him in.

  12. #117
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    >About 700 muslim people died in the WTC. <

    There aren't even half this number confirmed as dead yet.
    Your credibility is very questionable.

    rick barclay

  13. #118
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    Originally posted by Unregistered
    I can't belive how many people are in support of the war. Don't they understand that Bin Laden (if it was him) did this in order to start a war? If you join the war you will not be fighting for your country but for your president. My self I would not even want to just "set up computers" if it's for that idiot president of ours and would be used to kill. I ask that you look at things more closely and think things through before deciding to have a war.
    Why should anybody pay any attention to you? You don't
    even have the conviction or the nerve to sign your post.
    Who are you?

    rick barclay

  14. #119
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    So unregistered you would have no respect for a woman that is raped, if she fought back? Yes lets not go to war that is a great idea, in fact if anyone wants to kill us, lets just say "We are the worlds ***** go ahead do your thing"


    Osama bin laden doesnt hate america because we are in isreal, he hates isreal because it allows america.

    America sends food to afghanistan and other 3rd world countrys, we send medical supplies to some of the 3rd world countries.

    I do not feel guilty about 500,000 iraqian children dieing. America doesnt want to send food to a country that is led by a man that would like nothing less then all americans dead. If he can get food, he could also get medical supplies- antibiotics, and certain anti- biotics rapidly advance chemical weapons "anthrax mutates into a deadlieer form..."

    To a muslim, I have studied the middle east in a non- biased way, I have been to Isreal, Isreal does not kill palestenians.

    The people living in isreal pre-1948 were jews and palestines, explain to me, did all of the jews say "hey lets all move to our original home and create a democracy" no, they were already living there... when a people wants to create a democratic government, america helps. Sorry.



    "Actually, here in Saudi Arabia you will usually find these kind of things written in English not in Arabic. So I don’t know how, if an Arabic person did it, how did they become in Arabic and not in English?!"

    ...
    "As a muslim woman, I tell you that I am really lucky to be a muslim. And I’m able to speak and be seen in public. And if you want to know anymore about how woman is treated in Islam go to http://www.islamweb.net/english/
    http://www.islamweb.net/english/family/woman/woman.htm "


    ok, you live in saudi arabia, right? that is the center of confilict, if Osama had his way you would be walking around completely clothed and treated sub human. I believe that Islam is not evil, just as almost all religions arent evil. I belive that people exploit religion in such a way. The manual I belive was actually a terrorist training manual- a misconception by the media.



    Oh, afghanista accounts for 75% of the worlds heroin that is brought into america- talk about killing 2 birds with one stone.

  15. #120
    Linguistic Engineer... doubleanti's Avatar
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    >Oh, afghanista accounts for 75% of the worlds heroin that is brought into america- talk about killing 2 birds with one stone.

    hmmm... that's disturbing...

    when do we decide to intervene or to be passive? that is a difficult question which makes me glad i'm a bystander who only chooses to flex his/her power when applicable... so what's the main argument aside from just this now? decades of posts on this are all to this extent?
    hasafraggin shizigishin oppashigger...

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