View Poll Results: If war breaks out, will you sign up to fight?

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  • Yes

    26 39.39%
  • No

    40 60.61%

Will you sign up to fight?

This is a discussion on Will you sign up to fight? within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; What I said wasn't spoken in ignorance. It was spoken in anger to another person, not you. I don't think ...

  1. #151
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    What I said wasn't spoken in ignorance. It was spoken in
    anger to another person, not you. I don't think I'd say
    those things to you, because I know you better, and I'm
    sure you wouldn't disrepect my country to me, and I certainly
    won't to you. Australia is our friend. We fought side-by-side
    in Europe and Asia in WW's 1 & 2, Korea, and Vietnam. We
    are blood relations, our two countries, spawn of the British
    Empire. Whether or not you accept my apology is up to you,
    but I still do apologize to you for my comments. I know they're
    wrong, and like I said , they were directed out of anger and frustration to someone else, not you.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  2. #152
    aurë entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    Well I don't believe in holding grudges so I accept your apology. I guess I lost my head a little too, but I don't regret a word that I said.

  3. #153
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    Mechanix put it best, thank you.
    >>Novacain, are you trying to say that America had been a great factor in producing these madmen and will continue doing so in the future unless it changes its foreign dealings? Also, you support action against terrorists but you dont want innocents getting hurt.

    Thank you for putting it so succinctly.

    I know that most of you disagree with me, I would hate it if you all did agree (very boring world if we all think the same).

    I want to make you question the status quo.
    Provoke you into thinking past the version served to you by the mass media. Filter the information based on where and who provides it. And inform yourself.

    Understand truth is relative.

    This is the only way to stop repeating the past.
    Then to act on your opinions,

    Mechanix
    >>Does anyone else see a vicious circle? Just like when Russia invaded Afghan the Taliban got support from America. Now what will happen after the Taliban is destoryed and the Northern Alliance is left to take over Afghan?

    Exactly!

    Koshare
    >>look at what happened to the number of murders and violent crimes after australia illegalized guns.... lol, try to manipulate those numbers in your favor. Dumbass.

    What exactly are those figures Koshare? Did you bother to look them up? Or do you believe the NRA ads?
    Actually, according to the ABS, the numbers of crimes where firearms were used decreased in all areas, including murder, manslaughter and armed robbery, except attempted murder which increased. (They say this is due to the unavailability of automatic / high calibre weapons, I think the crims are just bad shots)

    PS try and keep to the TRUTH Koshare. If you don't know something look it up, not make it up. Or is it your special interest groups feeding you incorrect info? (the NRA in particular was using Aus as an example in adverts)

    www.abs.gov.au

  4. #154
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    >>Does anyone else see a vicious circle? <<

    It's not really a circle, IMO; it's more like a pinwheel or
    perhaps a super nova.

    Our weapons and the willingness of fanatics to use them is ever-expanding. The attack of 9-11-01 raises the bar bar significantly,
    actually removes it entirely as the point where civilized human
    beings will stop and go no further. Osama Bin Laden and his
    allies have effectively told the world, "There are no more rules."
    They are the kamikazes of the 21st century. We now know that
    the use of weapons of mass destruction in the future is not
    just a possibiliity, but a probability. The question is, if a terrorist
    successfully unleashes a biological or nuclear device against
    against this country, what would the ramifications be? How
    would this country react? You are welcome and free to disagree
    with me, but my own feeling is that if this doomsday
    situation should ever present itself and it was known or even
    suspected, purely for example, that an arab muslim was to blame,
    then the United States of America would launch its full nuclear
    arsenal upon those it deems responsible, starting with Tehran
    and Baghdad and going down its list of likely suspects until
    the President and his military commanders consider the threat of
    a future attack is eliminated.

    Can anybody picture the aftermath?

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  5. #155
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    >Oh so that was the reason?

    Yea, and every other country in the pacific. They ........ed off us off so we put them in there place.

    >It's spelt Kosovo. FYI many Kosvars were sent here, in fact quite a great deal of them. Never heard of that country? Lol. <


    Not relevent -score 0
    1. As been discussed 100 hundred million times I can't spell.

    2. my geogrophy is is a bit fuzzy I applogize.

    1/2 created (next 3 sections)
    >WWI = because civilian ships were being targeted by Germans. Otherwise you wouldn't have acted at all. <

    I don't know much about World War I so I realy can't repley, but I am guessing we did something.


    >WWII = because Perl Harbour was bombed and you realised that America wasn't safe. Europe could have used your help before 41. <

    Europe had are help before 41. Well we did not declare war we sent military suppiles to briten.

    >Vietnam = because the US Government wanted to stop communism. As if you cared about the South Vietnamese. <

    Go invade Afganistan, see what happens. My gusss is you will start seeing U S bombs



    Look I don't have anything against the American people, but I do disagree with your government and its actions. I don't support the Taliban or Osama bin Laden at all. I just think that had Clinton of actually done something instead of getting head from overweight in-turns, none of this would have happened. The US new about the risks in Afghanisatan, and you sat back and did nothing. The Clinton Administration really did jack **** to prevent it from happening. Your leaders aren't perfect America - perhaps you should question them instead of just blindly believing everything they say. Futhermore, get off your high horse for a second - you aren't perfect and you aren't always right. The US isn't responsible for the actions taken by the terrorists, but they are in someway accountable for allowing it to happen
    Clinton was a ****y miltary leader. He was way to caulsions about hurtting civilians, and didn't push for miltary expenses. We don't belive everything our leaders say, on the 11th for example I heard one of the talk shows them qustioning bill clintons lack of response to the Cole atack. I have never said the U S was perfect (but it is close) and we do have our problems and very rearly (if ever ) do somethig stupid on perpose.

    >>>Novacain, are you trying to say that America had been a great factor in producing these madmen and will continue doing so in the future unless it changes its foreign dealings? Also, you support action against terrorists but you dont want innocents getting hurt.

    Thank you for putting it so succinctly. <<

    America did not produce the madman, the madman produced them selves. If I sent you a knife to cut your steak but after finshing your steak you took the knife and killed me I am to blame? What is there to change in our forgin dealings? Get out of Kuiwat? For what so sadumm can have it.
    To Err Is To Be Human. To Game Is Divine!"

  6. #156
    aurë entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
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    I have never said the U S was perfect (but it is close) and we do have our problems and very rearly (if ever ) do somethig stupid on perpose.
    Close? Get a grip on reality.

  7. #157
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    >>Our weapons and the willingness of fanatics to use them is ever-expanding.

    I'm sorry. I fail to see the difference between a patriot and a fanatic.
    Both seem willing to kill innocent people if it will achieve thier goals. Both are unwilling to follow due process (or beleive that there is no point/time to).

    >>then the United States of America would launch its full nuclear arsenal upon those it deems responsible

    The aftermath, Nuclear winter (a cloud of dust in the atmosphere so thick not enough light can reach the earth). Approx 90% of all life on earth extinguished. Thats 1 in 10 plants and animals left. Mostly cockroaches probably. One nuclear capable submarine can do this.
    I cannot see any reason to nuke even if nuked first. Is winning the war more inportant than the world surviving. Is killing the few people responsible more important than killing the rest of the world who is not?

  8. #158
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    >>Is killing the few people responsible more important than killing the rest of the world who is not?

    You harbor a great respect for life... especially of the human variety. You must also have a high degree of self-importance for if you were not important, would it matter if you live or if you die?

    This is all beliefs and opinions... they go round and round to protect our number two instinct... protect ourselves. Number one being to procreate.

    So even with your advanced book learning and education... even with your high intelligence, it still comes down to... "No. Don't kill us all... this life is all I know and I am important to myself as are you."

    Some people beat their instincts by faithfully believing that this isn't all there is... and that your soul is yours to keep (suicide bombers, burning monks, etc). They believe that actions in this life determine the next phase...

    I think most people believe in some form of this... but the phases differ (heaven, etc). Still others believe that this truly is it (like my dad). In such a case, we are just brain functions and impulses. We are souless selfabsorbed beings with truly one life to live.

    So my point... you are wrong. You are also right. You are wrong to those that believe differently (and they are many). You are right to those that believe the same (and they are many).

    So get over it. When and if America blows people up (not my call or yours)... justly or not... turn the other cheek as you would have us do. Say... that is too bad. Not America is bad.

    Now... what do I believe... quite simply

    F*&^ em... kill them all. Let God sift through for the good ones. But, I do not *really* care about the human race. So I am crazy like that... and that probably disgusts you. So be it. It doesn't mean I do not like you. It just means we have different opinions.

    I do not think that this life is all there is.................
    Blue

  9. #159
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    >I'm sorry. I fail to see the difference between a patriot and a fanatic.<

    There is a significant difference in the definitions of these two terms, the contrariness of which should explain to any rational
    person why we are at war. Your problem, novacain, is like that
    of so many others: your misuse of the word "innocent."

    From the Oxford English Dictionary:

    patriot (n.)† 1. A fellow-countryman, compatriot. Obs. rare.

    1596 Lambarde Peramb. Kent (ed. 2) 246 Tenham..where our honest patriote Richard Harrys..planted..the sweete Cherry.
    1611 Cotgr., Patriote, a patriote, ones countrey~man.
    1629 H. Burton Truth’s Triumph 285 If hee..finde..kinde vsage of the natiues and patriots of the country.

    2. a. One who disinterestedly or self-sacrificingly exerts himself to promote the wellbeing of his country; ‘one whose ruling passion is the love of his country’ (J.); one who maintains and defends his country’s freedom or rights.

    In this use, at first, as in French (see Littré), with ‘good’, ‘true’, ‘worthy’, or other commendatory adjective: cf. ‘good citizen’. ‘Patriot’ for ‘good patriot’ is rare before 1680. At that time often applied to one who supported the rights of the country against the King and court.
    1605 B. Jonson Volpone iv. i, Such as were known patriots, Sound lovers of their country.
    1611 Bible Transl. Pref. 8 Was Catiline therefore an honest man, or a good Patriot?
    a1641 Bp. R. Montagu Acts & Mon. ii. (1642) 147 Nehemias, a true and faithfull Patriot.
    a1643 Ld. Falkland, etc. Infallibility (1646) 176 The Catholiques were knowne good Patriots under our former Kings.
    1699 Dryden To J. Driden 171 A patriot both the King and Country serves, Prerogative and privilege preserves.
    1706 Phillips, Patriot, a Father of his Country, a great Benefactor to the Publick.
    1716 Pope Epit. on Trumbal 5 An honest Courtier, yet a Patriot too, Just to his Prince, and to his Country true.
    1738 Glover Leonidas i. 262 So spake the patriot, and his heart o’erflow’d.
    1750 Berkeley Patriotism §24 A patriot is one who heartily wisheth the public prosperity, and doth..also study and endeavour to promote it.
    1814 Scott Ld. of Isles iii. xxvii, His was the patriot’s burning thought, Of Freedom’s battle bravely fought.
    1855 Prescott Philip II, I. ii. x. 255 A band of patriots ready to do battle for the liberties of their country.

    b. The name has been at various times borne or assumed by persons or parties whose claim to it has been disputed, denied, or ridiculed by others. Hence the name itself fell into discredit in the earlier half of the 18th c., being used, according to Dr. Johnson, ‘ironically for a factious disturber of the government’. So sometimes, at a later date, ‘Irish Patriot’.

    1644 Maxwell Prerog. Chr. Kings 117 The specious and spurious pretences of our glorious Reformers, and zealous Patriots today.
    1677 G. Hickes in Ellis Orig. Lett. Ser. ii. IV. 42 Encouraged..by their foresaid patriots, whereof some wish the ruin of the Church, and all of them the ruin of my Lord Duke.
    1681 Dryden Abs. & Achit. 965 Gull’d with a Patriots name, whose Modern sense Is one that wou’d by Law supplant his Prince: The Peoples Brave, the Politicians Tool; Never was Patriot yet, but was a Fool.
    1771 Earl Malmesbury Lett. (1870) I. 218 [This country] does not wish a war, whatever wicked patriots may endeavour, or lying newspapers print.
    1780 Cowper Table-t. 143 A band, called patriots for no cause But that they catch at popular applause.
    1798 Canning & Frere New Morality 113 in Anti-Jacobin, A steady patriot of the world alone, The friend of every country–but his own.
    1827 Hallam Const. Hist. (1842) II. 405.
    1833 Macaulay Ess., H. Walpole (1865) I. 284/1 The name of patriot had become [c 1744] a by-word of derision. Horace Walpole scarcely exaggerated when he said that..the most popular declaration which a candidate could make on the hustings was that he had never been and never would be a patriot.
    1888 Times 17 Aug. 7/2 Much to his credit, he refused to interfere in favour of the Irish patriots.

    fanatic, (n)B. n.
    † 1. A mad person. In later use: A religious maniac. Obs.

    c1525 Robin Hood 160 Fool, fanatick, baboon.
    1655 M. Casaubon Enthusiasme 7 One Orpheus, a mere fanatick.
    1806 Med. Jrnl. XV. 213 Dr. G[all] gave..hints how to treat fanatics, by using topical remedies and poultices.

    2. a. A fanatic person; a visionary; an unreasoning enthusiast. Applied in the latter half of the 17th c. to Nonconformists as a hostile epithet.

    1644 Abp. Maxwell Sacrosancta Regum Majestas 44 Gratia gratum faciens, Saving Grace, as some fanatickes and fantastickes fondly imagine.
    1657 John Gaule Sapient. Justif. 11 Enthusiasts, Anabaptists, Fanaticks, and Familists.
    1660 Fuller Mixt. Contempl. (1841) 212 A new word coined, within few months, called fanatics..seemeth well..proportioned to signify..the sectaries of our age.
    1660 Pepys Diary 15 Apr., Since Lambert got out of the Tower, the Fanatiques had held up their heads high.
    1709 Evans in Hearne Collect. 10 Nov., D. Sacheverel..thunderd..against ye phanaticks.
    1780 Harris Philol. Enq. (1841) 430 Henry the Fourth of France..was unexpectedly murdered by a wretched fanatic.
    1859 Kingsley Sir W. Raleigh I. 20 The man of one idea, who works at nothing but that..sacrifices everything to that; the fanatic in short.
    1883 Froude Short Stud. IV. iii. 269 The Jews..were troublesome fanatics whom it was equally difficult to govern or destroy.

    b. A fanatical devotee of.

    1790 Burke Fr. Rev. Wks. V. 66 Those exploded fanaticks of slavery.
    c. Comb.
    1707 E. Ward Hud. Rediv. (1715) II. ix, To show, tho’ conquer’d, they abhor (Fanatick like) all sov’reign Pow’r.
    1722 Sewel Hist. Quakers (1795) II. vii. 62 Robinson’s mischievous intent to go a fanatick hunting.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  10. #160
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    >I cannot see any reason to nuke even if nuked first. Is winning the war more inportant than the world surviving. Is killing the few people responsible more important than killing the rest of the world who is not?<

    You're not making any sense. If they, whoever "they" may be
    nuke us first, then "they" will most assuredly nuke us again
    and again and again until we are dead. This country is not
    ever going to compromise its principles or its manner of living
    just to please its enemies. We are not ever going to stop supporting
    Israel. It's not going to happen. We've made a committment
    to something that's rooted in our religious beliefs and governs
    the way we live our lives. To compromise those principles at
    the point of a gun is not an option. We have a gun, too, a far
    bigger gun than our enemy, and if our enemy starts shooting
    at us, we are going to shoot back in defence, even if our
    wound is mortal. I don't like it. Nobody wants it. But that's
    the way it is.

    The irony of one of your remarks made me smile and for once
    agree with you: if we do reach a doomsday situation here, one
    of the safest places to be will be at the bottom of the ocean
    in a nuclear submarine. Have you ever read Nevil Shute's,
    On the Beach? Those nuclear winds eventually reached Australia
    and the rest of the Southern hemisphere. For Hillbillie and others
    who are planning to sit out any conflagration, you should take
    heed that in an atomic war there is really no safe haven for
    you other than your own survival instincts and the survival of
    future generations, should that hopefull possibilty even exist.

    Novacain, you are suggesting that the U.S. should lay down its
    life so that others who are repugnant to us should live. That
    makes no sense at all.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  11. #161
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    So you guys are saying that if someone hurts someone close to you, then you will find their family and kill them all? Just to make sure that nothing like that happens agian?

    I have no idea where you guys stand. Are you for killing innocents along with the terroriists or just want the terrorists? Why dont you want to cut off the infected finger and not the whole arm?


    "So get over it. When and if America blows people up (not my call or yours)... justly or not... turn the other cheek as you would have us do. Say... that is too bad. Not America is bad."

    How many times have those Afghans heard that from their government? (replacing America with BinLaden) You have to think out of your own context. You have to think like the other side to understand the situation, and then come up with something that would put an end to this way of thinking.
    Dont say "turn the other cheek" and "not my call" because it is your responsibility. You say you would take up arms and defend your country. But you also say this. It doesnt make any sense. If it was "just", then you are defending a "just" cause. But you also said "justly or not" which means if it werent, then you are defending something that is not just. So why are you risking your life?

    That sentence that I just quoted is pure IDIOCY. (if thats word)

    "F*&^ em... kill them all. Let God sift through for the good ones. But, I do not *really* care about the human race. So I am crazy like that... and that probably disgusts you. So be it. It doesn't mean I do not like you. It just means we have different opinions."

    By your way of thinking of "let God sift through for the good ones", those people that died on Sept.11 were probably "bad"? And so deserve to die?

  12. #162
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    > Just to make sure that nothing like that happens agian? <

    Wouldn't it be so beautiful.

    >Are you for killing innocents along with the terroriists or just want the terrorists? <

    There's that word, again. "They" just murdered approximately
    7,000 innocent civilians of various nationalities, races and genders. No. We don't want to kill "innocents." We just want
    the terrorists. We bomb what we think are military targets. We
    don't intentionally bomb commercial establishments full of
    civillians, like they do. You're defending the wrong side, bub.
    But like you say, it's out of our hands now.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  13. #163
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    >> By your way of thinking of "let God sift through for the good ones", those people that died on Sept.11 were probably "bad"? And so deserve to die?

    Some of them probably were bad... some of them were good. I don't think you are paying attention tho... Once again this comes down to your inherent belief that human beings deserve to live. I would rather we all were dead and the porpuses ruled the world.


    How many times have those Afghans heard that from their government? (replacing America with BinLaden) You have to think out of your own context. You have to think like the other side to understand the situation, and then come up with something that would put an end to this way of thinking.
    Dont say "turn the other cheek" and "not my call" because it is your responsibility. You say you would take up arms and defend your country. But you also say this. It doesnt make any sense. If it was "just", then you are defending a "just" cause. But you also said "justly or not" which means if it werent, then you are defending something that is not just. So why are you risking your life?

    That sentence that I just quoted is pure IDIOCY. (if thats word)
    I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I think you are not paying attention again. I have read it several times. I am not saying "turn the other cheek". Others are... hence the " as you would have us do". As far as it being my responsibility... it isn't. I don't care about them or you. I don't want to see my country going to war, but I don't care if they decide to. I dont want them helping you... you guys should be speaking german or japanese right now (well maybe not you... do you have blue eyes). Why should my country protect yours or any other? You complain about America policing the world... well so do I. You and others complain that America is war-mongering and in the same breath complain that America doesn't get into wars fast enough.

    It sounds like a whole lot of whining to me, you wussy.
    Blue

  14. #164
    _B-L-U-E_ Betazep's Avatar
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    The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago ... had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands.
    -- Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923

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    >So you guys are saying that if someone hurts someone close to you, then you will find their family and kill them all? Just to make sure that nothing like that happens agian? <

    The culprit will get what he deserves. His family may will recive punisment if they help him.


    > have no idea where you guys stand. Are you for killing innocents along with the terroriists or just want the terrorists? Why dont you want to cut off the infected finger and not the whole arm? <

    We want the terroriist killed, not everyone but unfortunitly we are not the best surgeans and up scaring the arm. Mostly since the pacient puts in the way.

    >How many times have those Afghans heard that from their government? (replacing America with BinLaden) You have to think out of your own context. You have to think like the other side to understand the situation, and then come up with something that would put an end to this way of thinking. <

    Your talking to the wrong person, I know why the terriost hate us, and there bull. One of the main resons is because we defened kuwiat aganist suddam. He does not like that fact were there, or even when we sent hummanitar releif to a south african country in witch he is responsable for the death of 7 or 8 soiders.
    To Err Is To Be Human. To Game Is Divine!"

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