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This is a discussion on about within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; > What logic. < Good point. > Whose? < Yours. > Explain yourself. < If every Muslim civilian deserves to ...

  1. #31
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    > What logic. <
    Good point.

    > Whose? <
    Yours.

    > Explain yourself. <
    If every Muslim civilian deserves to die because of the actions of one group. Then why don't all Americans deserve to die because of the actions of a single group of American terrorists.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  2. #32
    Has a Masters in B.S.
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    then one of the few answeres to your questions and i give a simple one not the best mind you, it is as follows:

    God gave us free choice to do as we wan't if he prevented everything bad from happening he would deprive us of that choice by allowing only good and making him the ONLY choice. God gives all free will and if islam and terror is their choice then so be it.

    and their other answeres to this question but this is a simple one and not the best.

    "The young will ask for a sign, and they shall not recieve it."
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

  3. #33
    Ethereal Raccoon Procyon's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ggs
    Procyron, I think you'll find most of the religious people on these boards think, they don't just mindlessly do what the (or what they think) the bible says.
    It is indeed bizarre that they get up defending the idea of the massacre of children and genocide, but never actually seem to do these things. It's as if they say that they the Bible is perfect and that they follow it to the last detail, but unconscously realize it's wrong and ignore vast swaths of it.

    And Procyron: your long-assed posts are almost as bad as a fundie post.. bring up one point/reference at a time, and when somebody pokes a hole in it fill in the hole with another point/reference or start on something else. There is just too much information.
    ??? I posted an exorbitantly long list (which I admit I had cached from a 'conversation' with creationists about a year ago), but no one has addressed anything on it; no-one just gave the usual dismissal of evolution as 'not a theory' and made unsupported statements about 'evolutionists' contradicting each other. So I don't see what you mean.

    You can believe in the Universe, or you can believe in God or you can believe in yourself. You know what I mean. Aside from the organizational differences (as well as the moral compass) of each religion, there's not much of a fundamental difference between each in terms of proof and believabilityaidsf [sic]. Haha! BEAT YOU TO IT!
    I don't know about that. We can always run around in circles with philosophical arguments about the existence of souls, immortality, contradictions between omnipotence/omniscence, etc. But I'm sure no one's in the mood for that - I'm certainly not!

    btw: my current stance on evolution is that it's probably true... my being religious doesn't mean I automatically take everything in the bible literally, as Atheists have a disappointing tendency to.
    Atheists don't take it literally; that's just how it comes across when arguing with biblical inerrancy zealots. I do try to call attention to the fact that for all the talk about the bible being the "Good Book" and a paragon of virtue there is some really sickening immorality in there. The apparent morality of the Christian religion is based on a few choice passages; one could just as easily form a gruesome Christian death cult that focuses only on the worst of passages.

    Originally posted by no-one
    God gave us free choice to do as we wan't[sic] if he prevented everything bad from happening he would deprive us of that choice by allowing only good and making him the ONLY choice. God gives all free will and if islam and terror is their choice then so be it.
    Well, that still doesn't really answer the question. So he refuses to interfere with anyone's free will by changing their beliefs. But couldn't he have made an anonymous tip to Logan airport Monday evening? Or caused the planes to suffer engine trouble before takeoff, and never take off? Why can't he do things like that?

  4. #34
    a muslim
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    So go fight the goddamned Israelis and leave us the frick alone,
    you beast! But it's too late for that, now. Not my doing.
    Why do you think it is Palestenian that are fighting you? By the way.. they said they found some flying stuff in Arabic the problem is even in out universities we don't study these stuff in Arabic it is all in English

  5. #35
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Zach L.
    > What logic. <
    Good point.

    > Whose? <
    Yours.

    > Explain yourself. <
    If every Muslim civilian deserves to die because of the actions of one group. Then why don't all Americans deserve to die because of the actions of a single group of American terrorists.
    aka Timothy McVeigh, right? What other American terrorist
    group could you be talking about?

    Was McVeigh part of an organized group? Yes, but certainly
    not as well organized as the muslims.

    Did McVeigh ever acknowledge that his group was actively seeking to destroy the U.S. Government? No.

    Did McVeigh acknowledge that the Oklahoma attack was in
    reprisal for the Branch Davidian and other federal fiascos? Yes.

    Has there been any subsequent terrosit attack by McVeigh's
    organization? No.

    Wait a minute. This just isn't making any sense. What American
    terrorist group are you talking about? Your reference to a
    single group of American terrorists seems to be a hypothetical one. Is it? We're dealing with realities here, not wild speculations.
    The KuKluxKlan? That was years ago. So long ago that Bobby
    Kennedy cleaned them up. You think we should all die for the
    acts of the KuKluxKlan? I daresay, many blacks probably agree.
    I probably would if I were black. But still we have the fact that
    the KuKluxKlan in no way approaches or ever began to approach
    the reach, the resources, and the world-wide manpower of the
    muslims. It just doesn't apply. Nothing you say does.

    And one other thing, my good man, you are taking my words
    literally and to extremes. If I ever did say that all muslims
    deserve to die, and I don't deny or confirm that I have, it wasn't
    used in an all-encompassing context but rather is meant to
    include all those muslims who do not take some kind of active
    opposition to Osama Bin Laden and terrorism under the guise
    of Islam especially. When I start to see some active participation
    by muslims against these terrorists, then and only then will
    I change my opinion of them, and God knows I would be the
    happiest man on earth to do so. I have to go. Dinner's on the table.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  6. #36
    Toaster Zach L.'s Avatar
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    Rick, I did not realize from your previous posts that we were taking motive into account here. Yes, McVeigh is an example, so is the KKK (which I hadn't thought of before), and to some extent the U.S. government. We have done some stupid things. No, I don't think Americans should all pay for these acts, but it seemed that earlier you thought all Muslims should pay for the acts of these terrorists. I agree that the terrorists that did this deserve to die. I apologize for misinterpreting what you were saying.
    The word rap as it applies to music is the result of a peculiar phonological rule which has stripped the word of its initial voiceless velar stop.

  7. #37
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    As of last Tuesday this is an either you're part of the problem
    or your part of the solution situation. There is no in between
    anymore. If you think I'm crazy, go talk to a fireman, a
    policeman, a union worker--these people would like to eat
    muslims for dinner, seven days a week until they find Osama
    Bin Laden.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  8. #38
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    rick

    Do you see what asssholles they are? They come to our
    country, use our resources, kill our citizens and themselves,
    and their followers come to this board and mock us. Is it any
    wonder why we wish them dead?

    i cannot see why you said that for me.... ?

    anyway, from your posts i can see that you are a fanatic stupid
    person, close minded and typical "not thinking" by yourself.
    you are guided from all the ****ty things they are feeding you.
    you are a small slave, a robot. you are sick man.
    behold the faithless one and his angel

  9. #39
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    anyway, i can understand why americans will bomb these cities.
    and i am sure that it is not for revenge, it is because they want
    to show to the world that they cannot **** around with people
    (and in this case with america) and i think that it is probably the
    correct thing to do, if they don't then every sick ******* will try
    to make an attack.
    so, america will show to the world the true power they have.
    i don't think it is revenge, besides, how could it possible be
    revenge to a nation just because of some crazy people?
    not everyone is like rick.
    behold the faithless one and his angel

  10. #40
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ehsiq
    rick

    Do you see what asssholles they are? They come to our
    country, use our resources, kill our citizens and themselves,
    and their followers come to this board and mock us. Is it any
    wonder why we wish them dead?

    i cannot see why you said that for me.... ?

    anyway, from your posts i can see that you are a fanatic stupid
    person, close minded and typical "not thinking" by yourself.
    you are guided from all the ****ty things they are feeding you.
    you are a small slave, a robot. you are sick man.


    yaddayaddayadda yaddayadda yaddayaddayadda yadda oooglio

    rick (the mad) barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  11. #41
    Linguistic Engineer... doubleanti's Avatar
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    Culture YANK!

    ::rick meets himself in ehsiq... who is on first? more on this later...:: [insert news theme music here...]
    hasafraggin shizigishin oppashigger...

  12. #42
    Mayor of Awesometown Govtcheez's Avatar
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    rick - your attempt as "logic" makes me sad to call myself an American. I can't believe that you are for the wholesale destruction of an entire religion. Muslims weren't responsible for this. Madmen were. Despite what you may think, that is NOT they same thing. Read this (a letter by an Afghani woman):
    Dear Friends,
    Yesterday I heard a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
    Stone
    Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio allowed that this would mean killing
    innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but
    "we're
    at war, we have to accept collateral damage," and he asked, "What else can
    we do? What is your suggestion?" Minutes later I heard a TV pundit
    discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I
    thought about these issues especially hard because I am from Afghanistan,
    and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of
    what's
    been going on over there. So I want to share a few thoughts with anyone
    who
    will listen.
    I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
    doubt
    in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New
    York.
    I fervently wish to see those monsters punished. But the Taliban and Ben
    Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan.
    The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who captured Afghanistan in
    1997 and have been holding the country in bondage ever since. Bin Laden is
    a
    political criminal with a master plan. When you think Taliban, think
    Nazis.
    When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of
    Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."
    It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.
    They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would love for
    someone
    to eliminate the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international
    thugs
    holed up in their country. I guarantee it. Some say, if that's the case,
    why
    don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban themselves? The answer
    is, they're starved, exhausted, damaged, and incapacitated.
    A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
    disabled orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food.
    Millions of Afghans are widows of the approximately two million men killed
    during the war with the Soviets. And the Taliban has been executing these
    women for being women and have buried some of their opponents alive in
    mass
    graves. The soil of Afghanistan is littered with land mines and almost all
    the farms have been destroyed . The Afghan people have tried to overthrow
    the Taliban. They haven't been able to.
    We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
    The trouble with that scheme is, it has already been done. The Soviets
    took
    care of that. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level
    their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
    Eradicate
    their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? There is no
    infrastructure. Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late.
    Someone already did all that. New bombs would only land in the rubble of
    earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely.
    In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to
    move around. They'd slip away and hide (they have already, I hear). Maybe
    the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too
    fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping
    bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this
    horrific thing. Actually it would be making common cause with the
    Taliban-
    by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.
    So what else can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and
    trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground
    troops. I think that when people speak of "having the belly to do what
    needs
    to be done" many of them are thinking in terms of having the belly to kill
    as many as needed. They are thinking about overcoming moral qualms, about
    killing innocent people. But it's the belly to die, not kill, that's
    actually on the table. Americans will die in a land war to get Bin Laden.
    And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through
    Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. To
    get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would
    they
    let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will
    other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. The invasion
    approach is a flirtation with global war between Islam and the West. And
    that is Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants and why he did
    this thing. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there.
    At the moment, of course, "Islam" as such does not exist. There are
    Muslims
    and there are Muslim countries, but no such political entity as Islam. Bin
    Laden believes that if he can get a war started, he can constitute this
    entity and he'd be running it. He really believes Islam would beat the
    west.
    It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into
    Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a
    holocaust in Muslim lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to
    lose, even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong
    about
    winning, in the end the West would probably overcome-whatever that
    would
    mean in such a war; but the war would last for years and millions would
    die,
    not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden yes, but
    anyone else?
    I don't have a solution. But I do believe that suffering and poverty are
    the
    soil in which terrorism grows. Bin Laden and his cohorts want to bait us
    into creating more such soil, so they and their kind can flourish. We
    can't
    let him do that. That's my humble opinion.
    Tamim

  13. #43
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    behold the faithless one and his angel

  14. #44
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
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    >They're not even the government of Afghanistan.

    They rule the land. How do you define government ?

    >When you think Taliban, think Nazis.
    >When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler.
    >And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews"

    hm... from this comparison I'd say they are "the German populace" ...

    And history teaches that the poor are those who start uprisings,
    probably they don't have anything to loose but their bare life.
    hth
    -nv

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  15. #45
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
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    The message coming out of Washington seems to me to be
    that this will be was against terrorism everywhere, not
    only the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. The language was
    strong and unmistakeable in meaning. In line with this reasoning
    was a warning for every American not to vent their outrage
    on arabs and muslims and people who might be mistaken for
    them.

    I agree with this. We must destroy Bin Laden and terrorism
    at its root. Free thinking arabs and muslims everywhere
    should join us in the cause. My only reservation is that it
    remains to be seen whether or not they join us, do
    nothing (acceptable), or support the other side. As an American
    who appreciates his current mode of existence, I hope and
    pray that the arabs and muslims choose to help us whip the
    terrorists; there is so very much they can do, so much to
    contribute and so much for them to gain in the way of respect
    from other Americans, including jews, that I would think most
    would jump at the chance to show their sincerity and prove
    in the only way possible that they really mean what they say
    about living in peace with all people. Arabs and Islamics must
    take an active role in the fight against terrorism before they
    will be given serious consideration as a benevolent people in
    this country. That's all I'm saying: you say you're against
    terroism? Prove it--and then I'll love you like I love my
    fellow Man.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

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