The motivation of at least 2 wars in early American History

This is a discussion on The motivation of at least 2 wars in early American History within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; >>The British people back in Britain actually got a say in it. Actually got to vote on how they were ...

  1. #31
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    >>The British people back in Britain actually got a say in it. Actually got to vote on how they were taxed. Actually got to have representatives. We didn't.<<

    That's the 'rich' minority - the majority of Brits didn't get the vote until much later; universal suffrage did not occur until the early part of the 20th century.

    Still, it's a valid point - I had read that the Colonists were expected to pay tax without even the rich having a say in how they were governed - the tea thing was just intended as a peaceful protest which the Brits chose to punish militarily - remember that the Highland Scots had almost succeeded 30 years previously in overthrowing the usurping Hanoverians and reinstalling a Stuart monarch; and so the King & co. were probably extremely edgy about any open shows of defiance. Also water cannon & tear gas hadn't been invented then, although cabbage breath was probably as potent then as it is today.

    As for the monkey v's the queen: Bobo Bush is elected while Mrs Windsor is not, nor does the old bint have any say in the running of Britain - Bobo Bush does that too through his lackey, Saint-Tony-The-Soon-To-Be-Divine. Anyway, there's one thing that will always make the US superior to the UK: a written constitution guaranteeing the rights of individuals; the UK does not and will probably never endorse such a simple empowerment to its citizenry.

    >>I don't want to start a war between US and Britain here.<<

    No we wouldn't want that either as our only remaining combat regiment is the Royal Caterers who, although valiant in the field kitchen are ill-equipped for actual combat being, as they are, armed only with potato peelers. And parsnips.

    Thanks, Deckard, for that interesting link on the words of Thomas Paine; I might even read it one day.

  2. #32
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    ...and forgot to register..that last one was me.

  3. #33
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    Anyway, there's one thing that will always make the US superior to the UK: a written constitution guaranteeing the rights of individuals;
    my thoughts exactly

  4. #34
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    You know, we shouldn't be fighting. Isn't the UK helping us here? Oh well.

    I don't think you UKers understand America quite well. You say we don't give the TERRORISTS at Guantanamo Bay any rights? Well what rights did New Yorkers get at the World Trade Center bombing? NONE!

    Also, you people say that we had a revolution once we started getting laws enforced? Have you guys heard of TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION? I don't think it's very fun.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

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  5. #35
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    On the words of T Paine;
    I find these quotes interesting as I think they now apply to the US now (compared to the rest of the world) instead of England to America then.

    Your constitution / bill of rights
    >>That it was noble for the dark and slavish times in which it was erected, is granted. When the world was overrun with tyranny the least remove therefrom was a glorious rescue. But that it is imperfect, subject to convulsions, and incapable of producing what it seems to promise, is easily demonstrated.

    Like the right to bear arms.

    Your war on terrorism that all of us have to participate in or be against the US. ie Pakistan

    >>We have boasted the protection of Great Britain, without considering, that her motive was INTEREST not ATTACHMENT; that she did not protect us from OUR ENEMIES on OUR ACCOUNT, but from HER ENEMIES on HER OWN ACCOUNT, from those who had no quarrel with us on any OTHER ACCOUNT, and who will always be our enemies on the SAME ACCOUNT.

    >>And a government which cannot preserve the peace, is no government at all, and in that case we pay our money for nothing;

    How past lessons are ignored in the bright new future.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  6. #36
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    >>DAMN IT WE HAVE NO CHOICE! a dozen or so foriegn governments are subsidising their damned steel AND CRUSHING OUR INDUSTRY FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN THEY CANNOT PRODUCE IT AS CHEAP AS WE DO!! WHICH IS ILLEGAL UNDER THE WTA! OUR STEEL INDUSTRY IS DEVASTATED!

    This makes me very angry as it is totally untrue!

    You got that backwards. (Or please link to you source.)

    I'm confused, as Russia and Australia do not have tarrifs and account for roughly 80% of your steel imports.
    The company I contract to has roughly 75% of its steel sent to the US.

    Could you mention the DOZEN or so countries that have tarrifs AND export steel to the US.

    Don't even mention the WTA as you don't bother to abide by it. Bush cares nothing for anything that will harm the US economy even if it hurts the US reputation or US allies. Bobo is destroying the WTA as we speak to prop up US farmers, now the most heavily subsidised in the WORLD.


    EDIT:
    It appears Bush has heard me and is relaxing some of the tarrifs on Aussie steel.
    Last edited by novacain; 03-11-2002 at 08:01 PM.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  7. #37
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    Your constitution / bill of rights
    >>That it was noble for the dark and slavish times in which it was erected, is granted. When the world was overrun with tyranny the least remove therefrom was a glorious rescue. But that it is imperfect, subject to convulsions, and incapable of producing what it seems to promise, is easily demonstrated.
    the constitution can be amended. if there's a problem and the people want it fixed, it will be fixed. our right to bear arms is there because people want it. it's embedded in our culture. a gun is a symbol of a wo/man's right to defend him/herself, no matter what an unjust government might do. when a wo/man has a gun in his/her hand, they have power.

    Your war on terrorism that all of us have to participate in or be against the US. ie Pakistan

    >>We have boasted the protection of Great Britain, without considering, that her motive was INTEREST not ATTACHMENT; that she did not protect us from OUR ENEMIES on OUR ACCOUNT, but from HER ENEMIES on HER OWN ACCOUNT, from those who had no quarrel with us on any OTHER ACCOUNT, and who will always be our enemies on the SAME ACCOUNT
    everyone has chosen to participate. we were hurt, and the countries came to our aid. more importantly, they also have an interest in getting rid of terrorism. terrorism is a world-wide problem.
    we do have an interest in the rest of the world. we do act unilateraly, mostly to our own wishes. can't hide the truth.
    >>And a government which cannot preserve the peace, is no government at all, and in that case we pay our money for nothing;

    How past lessons are ignored in the bright new future.
    i don't understand what this has to do with other countries. we are preserving the peace the best we can. other counrties don't pay money to us(to our government).

  8. #38
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    i really don't like this board.. i post one night and then come back the next just to have 2 pages of posts to mow through, most of which aren't too nice to anyone and accomplish close to nothing (besides prolonging the conflict)...

    of course this is my fault, i should have posted the quote i found instead of making something on my own...

    SO what, big deal, ban me. i don't care. the only reason i came here is because i just had no other distraction besides posting something strange on America.

    Our founding fathers were articulate babies to some point. They quarreled alot in the early days and didn't unify themselves appropriately to prevent the tragedy that was the Articles of Confederation. Our country was a load of crap after it attained its independence up until the constitution was passed (btw, this document was ILLEGAL, and the men responsible could have been arrested. throwing out the articles of confederation was treason against the American Government...). The beginning was currupt and poorly managed in 9 out of 10 cases. No one knew what they were doing. The constitution was farely poorly written as a document that would, in essence, start up a country. I think the constitution created more controversy than not.

    I don't know, i'm wrong most probably.

    flame me, have fun.

  9. #39
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    >Also, you people say that we had a revolution once we started getting laws enforced? Have you guys heard of TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION? I don't think it's very fun.

    you are going backwards, this has definatley been said before.

    The american colonies were represented, albeit virtually, in the British Parliament. If the Americans had followed the laws that the Brits gave them, there wouldn't be any unfair taxing, only taxing as mucha s there was in the mainland britain. The revolution stems from as much Americans asking to be oppressed as them being unprovocedly opressed by the Brits.

  10. #40
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    virtual representation is a sham. i cannot be clearer than that.
    an australian cannot make decisions for... lets say... fijians(sp?) and claim that s/he represents them. a representitive must be a part of his/her constituency so s/he can truly represent them.

  11. #41
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    >>>>And a government which cannot preserve the peace, is no government at all, and in that case we pay our money for nothing;

    How past lessons are ignored in the bright new future.<<

    The money is your US taxes, spent waging wars and on illegal US tarrifs (see WTA). Somewhere around US$1,000 per man, woman and child in the US, on tarrifs this year alone.

    It was a comment on GWB changes to your laws that no one protests about or even seems to notice. Including 'sneak and peek' searches, military tribunal trials for non military personel (no rules of evidence, less rights ect) and change to nuke use rules. Nukes are now considered 'conventional' and can be used 'after suprising military acts' eg nuke Afghanistan for Sept 11th

    Bush also included China, Iraq, Iran and sth Korea on the nuke 'em if they move list.
    "Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
    George Best

    "If you are going through hell....keep going."
    Winston Churchill

  12. #42
    31173 h4x0r gnu-ehacks's Avatar
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    >>And a government which cannot preserve the peace, is no government at all, and in that case we pay our money for nothing; <<

    LoL, the point of government is not to preserve peace! Contrary to popular thought, this is not the point of the government. The true point of the government is to protect the best interests of the people of the nation. Why are we waging this war on terrorism? No, it's not revenge, it is to protect us from ANOTHER terrorist attack! Right now, I'd say that the American Government is doing a good job at what they are suppose to be doing.
    What will people say if they hear that I'm a Jesus freak?
    What will people do if they find that it's true?
    I don't really care if they label me a Jesus freak, there is no disguising the truth!

    Jesus Freak, D.C. Talk

    -gnu-ehacks

  13. #43
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    anything can be declared unconstitutional. the beauty of our system is that we are ruled by an unfeeling set of very basic laws. look at the new deal for evidence.

    btw, it's north korea we're against, not south korea

  14. #44
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    >
    This makes me very angry as it is totally untrue!

    You got that backwards. (Or please link to you source.)
    <

    i believe i do, my previous resources was incorrect and made me look like an ass. i apologize.

    BTW: the subsidising is illegal, and the tarrifs are quite legal under the WTA.

    but you should stop *****ing when your industry is trying to do the exact same thing...

    http://workers.labor.net.au/62/news3_social.html

    >
    Bobo is destroying the WTA as we speak to prop up US farmers, now the most heavily subsidised in the WORLD.
    <

    this is true but not really on topic, the farmers are another discussion, and this started long before Bush.

    >
    It was a comment on GWB changes to your laws that no one protests about or even seems to notice.

    Including 'sneak and peek' searches,
    <

    whatever, not gonna happen without a warrant, sorry bub.

    cause if they aint got one then you can blow them to hell for tresspassing.

    >
    military tribunal trials for non military personel (no rules of evidence, less rights ect) and change to nuke use rules. Nukes are now considered 'conventional' and can be used 'after suprising military acts' eg nuke Afghanistan for Sept 11th
    <

    your completely wrong on this. i don't think anyone crazy enough for that just yet.

    >
    Bush also included China, Iraq, Iran and sth Korea on the nuke 'em if they move list.
    <

    your info is not correct, these are POSSIBLE targets this does not mean nukes will ever be used, ever heard of the word contingency? it goes with plan.
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

  15. #45
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    monkeys are fun

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