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Programmers new "elitist snobs"

This is a discussion on Programmers new "elitist snobs" within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; An example - http://cboard.cprogramming.com/c-pro...ture-help.html Are you saying vart shouldn't have pointed out the problems with fflush(stdin) and gets() because they ...

  1. #31
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    An example -
    string contents into structure help

    Are you saying vart shouldn't have pointed out the problems with fflush(stdin) and gets() because they were not asked for, and should assume that the OP already knows about those and is just ignoring them?

  2. #32
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    nah, infact he was even the last one, so he didn't go off-topic while the topic was still active... But I dunno if someone still gets annoyed by it tho...
    Currently research OpenGL

  3. #33
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akkernight
    It's faster
    Yeah, some people who have asked me for help via instant messaging have cited that as well. But this is a quality versus time trade-off: without review, the quality of help given, even by an expert, is more likely to be poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akkernight
    nah, infact he was even the last one, so he didn't go off-topic while the topic was still active... But I dunno if someone still gets annoyed by it tho...
    Why does it matter if anyone is annoyed? I am annoyed that tabstop did not point out those deficiencies in the posted code, because it may come to pass that I will have to maintain a program written by timjon1, and all this assuming that timjon1 knows what he/she is doing will come back and bite me.
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    nah, infact he was even the last one, so he didn't go off-topic while the topic was still active... But I dunno if someone still gets annoyed by it tho...
    So it would be wrong if he posted it while the problem hasn't been solved?

  5. #35
    Hail to the king, baby. Akkernight's Avatar
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    oh damn.. Well I meant to add that those weren't bibles of text, so I personally wouldn't get annoyed...

    laserlight, I just know them in IM by other occasions, and then just don't bother going on the boards. Also, you shouldn't annoy people... Might end bad
    Currently research OpenGL

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    Well, all I can say to the OP and to Akkernight is don't ever, ever post a question on comp.lang.c++ - you'll need much thicker skin. This place is Stuart Smalley on C++ in comparison.

  7. #37
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    all this assuming that timjon1 knows what he/she is doing will come back and bite me.
    Agreed - that's also the reason people are so hostile to 'do my homework' threads. Very often, the combination of the assignment posted and the explanation given by the poster reveal that this is a person who has already advanced far beyond where there actual skills should take them. I used to work with a guy who had obviously had his homework done for him by other group members through most of his time in school. He had assumed that it wasn't really that hard to figure out, and was just 'busy work' that someone else could do faster. He had a rude awakening when he knew enough to get hired but not enough to solve a real problem.

    I'm very open to criticism on things I may have missed because I learned long ago that I make a lot of mistakes. I overlook things, etc.. that only makes me a bad programmer if I don't check myself or accept input from others.

  8. #38
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    I love delusions of grandeur programmers. I mean I knew college programming assignments were just busy work, but I still did them on my own. It's one think to Think you know something, even if it's easy, and another thing actually doing it.
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  9. #39
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    I'm very open to criticism on things I may have missed because I learned long ago that I make a lot of mistakes. I overlook things, etc.. that only makes me a bad programmer if I don't check myself or accept input from others.
    Don't we all. Maybe it requires work experience or experience working with other programmers on a project to realize that we are all wrong at times and would do well to listen to some constructive criticism. What is very cool about this is the more you are open to criticism the better you learn to take it and the less impact it has on your emotions. At that point you can take the criticism for what it is - not an attack on your person or who you are but rather an opportunity to learn and improve your craft.

    I make it a point to always accept criticism of my code even if I do not agree with it. It does not mean I change my code at another's whim but it does mean I'm open to learning new approaches and new techniques. I'm finding that you eventually reach a point where you do not have to defend your code but that it defends itself. If you are always defending your own code then I would say you need to be more open to the suggestions and criticisms of other people.

    None of us here are beyond making mistakes and I make plenty of them although I try my best every time I code. The difference between a good programmer and a bad programmer, in my opinion, is that a good programmer is open to learning and open to criticism and a bad programmer insists their way is the right way without ever taking into account any other way.
    Last edited by VirtualAce; 06-01-2009 at 07:11 PM.

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    I'm getting so .......... tired of this that I just ignore the one who does this and do not even tell them to stay on topic any longer... You peeps enjoy too much to prove yourselves!
    It isn't about proving anything. A lot of the questions here are like, "Can you help me fix my flat tire?" when the larger problem is that the entire car is on fire.

    Ignoring the elephant in the room is ALWAYS a mistake.
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  11. #41
    and the hat of wrongness Salem's Avatar
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    > A lot of the questions here are like, "Can you help me fix my flat tire?" when the larger problem is that the entire car is on fire.
    Nice one
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  12. #42
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    Ignoring the elephant in the room is ALWAYS a mistake.
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  13. #43
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    OK, I haven't had (or got) time to read every post in this thread, but I've got the general gist of the topic and would like to make a comment or two.

    I don't post often here but I do look around for answers, etc. from time to time.

    I thoroughly agree that topic lines such as "Urgent help needed" are pretty useless and do nothing to indicate the nature of the question. In addition, I also agree that it's plain wrong to come here asking for homework help when it's clear that no effort has been made ahead of posting. Folk should research before they post to indicate that they understand what they're asking and will understand any decent answers posted (or at least find out how to understand them). Otherwise, nastiness and sarcasm is only to be expected.

    As for homework, surely the first port of call should be to ask the teacher/lecturer? If the explanation given in class was not sufficient, would s/he not be the best person to help in the first instance?

    And there is an awful lot of sense in articles such as this one.

    However, where I strongly disagree is when anyone, and I mean ANYONE, feels justified in posting rubbish such as RTFM, STFW, GIYF, or any other form of GFAM on its own without justification. Some googling about on RTFM also turned up Tom Kyte's Oracle blog:

    Tom Kyte on RTFM

    I think he speaks a lot of sense when it comes to RTFM.

    If anyone reading this ever feels justified in posting an unqualified RTFM (or similar), then you have to ask why you think it's justified to potentially waste someone else's time in the future who may find your post in a search. Put yourself in a newbie's shoes who does believe in searching around the manual and Googling for answers before posting, only to find that their question is so commonly asked on the Web and the only answer ever dished up is STFW. The STFW replies have spammed out the sensible replies that would have readily showed up had it not been for the STFW spammers.

    By the way, I did an STFW on 'Foonly Flurbamatic'. You ought to try it sometime if you haven't already done so
    Last edited by Driver; 06-02-2009 at 02:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver View Post
    Put yourself in a newbie's shoes who does believe in searching around the manual and Googling for answers before posting, only to find that their question is so commonly asked on the Web and the only answer ever dished up is STFW.
    I always STFW first before telling someone else to Let Me Google That For You. I would be surprised if the instances of the case described were not in the overwhelming minority.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by medievalelks View Post
    I always STFW first before telling someone else to Let Me Google That For You. I would be surprised if the instances of the case described were not in the overwhelming minority.
    Ditto, as with LIUITFM (which is almost a fictional French androgenous subject radio station). Usually it is very obvious this has not happened yet...and if it has, I would hope the dumb lil' moron can get a sentence in edgewise, vis. "Okay, but in the FM it says..."
    Last edited by laserlight; 06-02-2009 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Removing an unnecessary insult.
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