100000 women

This is a discussion on 100000 women within the A Brief History of Cprogramming.com forums, part of the Community Boards category; Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ actually, the 20 with an incorrect result 50% were pregnant and receved a negitive result 50% ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ View Post
    actually, the 20 with an incorrect result
    50% were pregnant and receved a negitive result
    50% were not and received a positive result
    No, the 20 with a positive result:
    50% are pregnant and hence get a positive result
    50% are not pregnant, but get an incorrect and hence positive result

    Greets,
    Philip
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafuist View Post
    No, the 20 with a positive result:
    50% are pregnant and hence get a positive result
    50% are not pregnant, but get an incorrect and hence positive result

    Greets,
    Philip
    so no pregnant women receive negative results?
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ View Post
    so no pregnant women receive negative results?
    Probably not.

    The test shows the correct result in 99.99% of all cases. There are 10 pregnant women. 99.99% of 10 pregnant women is more or less 10 pregnant women.

    Greets,
    Philip
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  4. #19
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafuist View Post
    I'm certainly not denying that the German mind tends to be extraordinarily complicated, but I think the sentence "Hamlet was not written by Shakespeare; it was merely written by a man named Shakespeare" has the same meaning in both German and English. Every German would immediately interpret the literal translation of this sentence as "Hamlet was not written by this famous Shakespeare guy; it was merely written by someone else who just happens to have the same name."

    I'd be interested to hear which "German authority on English literature" you're referring to.
    The "German Authority" is fictional AFAIK since the context of the quote is from a piece of fiction; it just rang bells vis. my formal study of (German) philosophy (which I like, esp Nietzsche).

    So perhaps the example is bad and was intended for anglophones familiar with such, as is actually not an uncommon technique in 20th century English literature: because the lineage Husserl -> (Heidegger*) -> Derrida was *the* predominant stream of 20th century western philosophy, and 20th century English writers were aware of it. It is probably a pun on the idea: one acquired this "awareness" there, so the reader may or may not get the joke. The awareness being a nuanced slant in English but perhaps a more concrete distinction in German -- "German" being, metaphorically or mythologically, a language like "Japanese" in (common, later, 20th century) English parlance: something frightening -- technically superior but alien. I still believe this is *slightly* more than metaphorical (but I also believe English is the most modern, and probably most complex, language in the world; the "German" or "Japanese" person is really a mirror for the implication: who wants to be the dominant alien?).

    Does the sentence have a different meaning for English native speakers?
    It could, but most people would disagree about what that was. So since the source is *literary*, I guess the point is a distinction between the naive (English/literal) type person and the sophisticate (German/interpretive) type person that I just mentioned.

    Going back to my comment about the OP being a near non-sequiter: it is. In this case the naive Englishman would cling to the paradigm of "probability calculus" despite the ridiculousness of the conclusion this forces upon him, whereas the sophisticate German would not be so bound, but unable to explain to the Englishman why he is a fool -- because the Englishman does not have the (linguistic) capacity to understand his naivete.

    w/r/t German, Danish, et. al., my dad could communicate in Danish, German, Swedish, Norwegian to some extent because of the similarities (having witnessed this), but I cannot see such a possibility English -> German. If you watch Danish television (often German with Danish subtitles), it is almost funny how much the the spoken German "sounds like" the Danish subtitles. But I do not speak either language, so maybe that is my naivete after all, the subtitles must have been there for a reason.

    * KICKS ASS
    Last edited by MK27; 05-25-2009 at 07:31 PM.
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  5. #20
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornedBee View Post
    Of course, that's assuming that pregancy rate without contraceptive is 100%, which it isn't.
    It is when I'm 'The Impregnator'

    I'll be back.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  6. #21
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abachler View Post
    It is when I'm 'The Impregnator'

    I'll be back.
    Well. Governers of California rejoice friends, here is your evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    "German" being*, metaphorically or mythologically, a language like "Japanese" in (common, later, 20th century) English parlance: something frightening -- technically superior but alien.
    *pretty much Austria.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  7. #22
    30 Helens Agree neandrake's Avatar
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    We covered a similar problem like this at school. I believe the idea was to come across that the test needs to be run multiple times for best accuracy. Somehow this was related to mobile robotics, and how sensor inputs ideally will take multiple readings for the best accuracy.
    Environment: OS X, GCC / G++
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK27 View Post
    The awareness being a nuanced slant in English but perhaps a more concrete distinction in German
    No, it's a nuanced slant in German as well. But the German mind is arguably more prone to spotting those nuances: in German, it's hard to formulate simple statements and not sound like a moron.

    "German" being, metaphorically or mythologically, a language like "Japanese" in (common, later, 20th century) English parlance: something frightening -- technically superior but alien.
    I can easily comprehend that German must seem frightening, and it's probably very hard for non-native speakers to get used to the language. In my opinion, this is mostly due to German being a synthetic language (i.e. words reflect their grammatical role within a sentence by using morphemes). The correct sub-category is "flektierende Sprache", which is probably "flecting language" in English.

    Here's an example:

    Hans gibt seiner Schwester 10 Piepen für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk
    (Hans pays his sister 10 bucks for their parents' birthday present)

    Hans gibt seiner Schwester für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk 10 Piepen
    (Hans pays his sister for their parents' birthday present 10 bucks)

    Hans gibt für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk seiner Schwester 10 Piepen
    (Hans pays for their parents' birthday present his sister 10 bucks)

    Seiner Schwester gibt Hans 10 Piepen für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk
    (His sister pays Hans 10 bucks for their parents' birthday present)

    Seiner Schwester gibt Hans für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk 10 Piepen
    (His sister pays Hans for their parents' birthday present 10 bucks)

    10 Piepen gibt Hans seiner Schwester für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk
    (10 bucks pays Hans his sister for their parents' birthday present)

    10 Piepen gibt Hans für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk seiner Schwester
    (10 bucks pays Hans for their parents' birthday present his sister)

    10 Piepen für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk gibt Hans seiner Schwester
    (10 bucks for their parents' birthday present pays Hans his sister)

    Für deren Eltern Geburtstagsgeschenk gibt Hans seiner Schwester 10 Piepen
    (For their parents' birthday present pays Hans his sister 10 bucks)


    In German, all these sentences have the exact same meaning. In English, only the first one actually has a meaning at all. Hence, it doesn't suffice to recognize the meaning of a German word, one must also determine its gender, grammatical number and grammatical case (for nouns) and tense, person, gender, mood, grammatical aspect and lexical aspect (for verbs). A lot of these combinations lead to slightly different words (which is good, because otherwise one also has to consider the context). This must be a nightmare for English native speakers.

    but I also believe English is the most modern, and probably most complex, language in the world
    Of all the languages I know (German, English (which I can speak more or less fluently), and French, Latin (which I can read and understand with the help of a dictionary)), English is by far the easiest language, both to understand and to write. What makes you believe that it's "probably the most complex language in the world"? Most German native speakers would consider such a statement to be outright ridiculous.

    Occasionally, I like to formulate my thoughts in English, especially when I'm thinking about algorithms or other topics related to CS. That's because in English, it's simply not possible to construct complicated sentences. In German, you can easily write a whole book consisting of only one sentence.

    because the Englishman does not have the (linguistic) capacity to understand his naivete.
    In Germany, it's a common belief that all North-Americans are fat and stupid, but this is probably not what you intended to say ;-)

    Have you heard about the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?

    Greets,
    Philip
    Last edited by Snafuist; 05-25-2009 at 07:50 PM.
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  9. #24
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafuist View Post
    Have you heard about the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?
    I'll go as high as $30 US

    So Thanks for that Snafuist but I think you meant Tapir-Warf Hypothesis:
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    Last edited by MK27; 05-25-2009 at 08:51 PM.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafuist View Post
    Probably not.

    The test shows the correct result in 99.99% of all cases. There are 10 pregnant women. 99.99% of 10 pregnant women is more or less 10 pregnant women.

    Greets,
    Philip
    there are 1000 pregnant women (given abachler is the father (lots of child support lol) )

    there are 1000 incorrect pregnancy tests

    there are 10 pregnant women who had a negative pregnancy test result
    Last edited by ಠ_ಠ; 05-25-2009 at 10:20 PM.
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  11. #26
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ಠ_ಠ View Post
    there are 10 pregnant women who had a negative pregnancy test result
    Apparently the "B" is 10 of 10 after is somewhat sick, U no I love her anyways and get stupid, odddd bless

    [later] I have decided to give up drinking
    Last edited by MK27; 05-26-2009 at 02:18 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk27 View Post
    apparently the "b" is 10 of 10 after is somewhat sick, u no i love her anyways and get stupid, odddd bless
    what the ........ are you saying?
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  13. #28
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neandrake View Post
    We covered a similar problem like this at school. I believe the idea was to come across that the test needs to be run multiple times for best accuracy. Somehow this was related to mobile robotics, and how sensor inputs ideally will take multiple readings for the best accuracy.
    Typically this is done in machine vision, as there is quite significant levels of artifacts in a single captured image, but if you average even a few images together (as few as 2-3), the anomolies mostly go away. This of course can lead to new types of anomolies appearing, mostly on cheap low end webcams though, where you can actually see the boundaries of the individual cmos arrays. CCD doesn't have this problem generaly because CCD cameras use a monolithic imaging chip.
    Until you can build a working general purpose reprogrammable computer out of basic components from radio shack, you are not fit to call yourself a programmer in my presence. This is cwhizard, signing off.

  14. #29
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    w/r/t German, Danish, et. al., my dad could communicate in Danish, German, Swedish, Norwegian to some extent because of the similarities (having witnessed this)
    Yes, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are all very similar, all danes understand all swedes and norwegians, and ofcourse the other way around.

    If you watch Danish television (often German with Danish subtitles),
    95% of Danish TV is either in Danish, or in English with subtitles, i have a hard time remembering last time i watched German TV on a Danish TV station.

    it is almost funny how much the the spoken German "sounds like" the Danish subtitles. But I do not speak either language, so maybe that is my naivete after all, the subtitles must have been there for a reason.
    I am not a linguist, (nor am i an expert in Danish TV, or well, not professionally atleast :P), but i have been taking German classes for the last 6 years of my life, and i still have trouble understanding it, so do many of my classmates.
    German does not come naturally to Danes, unless they live very close to the border.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by snafuist
    Occasionally, I like to formulate my thoughts in English, especially when I'm thinking about algorithms or other topics related to CS
    Funny, i do the exact same thing! And here i was thinking i was the only one, yay, i'm normal!
    Last edited by Neo1; 05-26-2009 at 05:35 PM.
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  15. #30
    spurious conceit MK27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo1 View Post
    95% of Danish TV is either in Danish, or in English with subtitles, i have a hard time remembering last time i watched German TV on a Danish TV station.
    I had that experience when I was 16, so 20 years ago. Denmark's a nice place; more recently when I was there I didn't watch any TV, except for a video tape of the last police raid on "Freetown Christiania" from before it was declared a historic site and protected by the government*. I lived in Christiania for a few months, it was one of the most amazing places I have ever been, and I've travelled a fair bit. Sadly, it would never, never, be allowed to exist in the USA.

    *I just read the wikipedia article and it sounds like the government changed and has now decided to ruin the place. Too bad...I had been looking forward to going back one day. Very bad, from the sounds of it, in fact.
    Last edited by MK27; 05-26-2009 at 05:58 PM.
    C programming resources:
    GNU C Function and Macro Index -- glibc reference manual
    The C Book -- nice online learner guide
    Current ISO draft standard
    CCAN -- new CPAN like open source library repository
    3 (different) GNU debugger tutorials: #1 -- #2 -- #3
    cpwiki -- our wiki on sourceforge

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